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Author Topic:   Are we prisoners of sin
purpledawn
Member (Idle past 1840 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 421 of 454 (506648)
04-28-2009 7:49 AM
Reply to: Message 411 by Cedre
04-28-2009 5:05 AM


God is the Authority
quote:
Purpledawn and her attacks on biblical authority accepting only those words attributed to Jesus, as if those words were not penned by the same guy who wrote the rest of the book, how silly! Why should you only trust the words in red while even they were written by the author whose words you bring into question in other places of the same book?
If you truly believe in God, then God is the highest authority. God frowns upon those who claim to speak for him, but don't really have the authority to do so.

If you believe that Jesus is the son of God and had authority from God for all he said and did, then the words attributed to him carry the authority of God. Since Jesus didn't leave anything in writing all we have is what the unknown gospel writers wrote.

Paul does not claim to speak for God.

As far as cherry picking, I list the part of the chapter or paragraph that gets your attention and shows where I'm at in the Bible; and then I explain what I feel the author was trying to say in the paragraph, story, or book. I encourage people to read the entire book or chapter. There's not much I can do if you choose not to read the rest of the story.

When you provide a scripture I go to the Bible and read the whole paragraph, story, or book to see what the author is trying to say and if that disagrees with your interpretation, then I say so. All you have to do is explain why you understand it differently given the full context of the book. Unfortunately you don't do that, you just provide another verse.

I've said before that I feel all the writers were inspired, but they are inspired for their time and their audience. God isn't having them deal with the future, he is having them deal with their time, their reality.

I have consistently left links or references to where I have gotten my information. Early Christian Writings, Commontaries by Edgar Goodspeed, History of Christianity, History of the Jews, etc.

Just because you choose not to check out the links, doesn't mean I haven't provided the means for you to understand how I came to my conclusions.

I've already made my case and you've already made my case for me by your own statements, so why the puffer fish imitation?

quote:
But why don’t we go to scripture to see what it says about itself.

(2Ti 3:16) All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Scripture is not a living thing, it can't say anything about itself.

Let's look at the reality behind 2 Timothy since you want to understand how I determine. This commentary by Edgar Goodspeed gives the reality behind the inspiration of the author. I am only quoting the portion that addresses the verse you provided, because it takes too much space to quote the whole article and it is unnecessary since the reader can use the link to read the whole article should they choose to.

According to Mr. Goodspeed, 2 Tim is not written by Paul. It was written about 100-150 CE. Christians are no longer expecting a quick return of Christ, so the church has to adjust.

Occasion. As the years went by and Christianity grew, it became more and more evident that Paul's conception of its work as a short, intensive campaign in preparation for the Lord's return must give way to a longer perspective. The church must take the long look and gird itself for a long, long conflict. It must adjust itself to an extended, perhaps even a permanent, activity in the world. So the churches must be definitely organized with responsible officers having specific qualifications and duties.

According to Mr. Goodspeed the reality of the time is that Paul's writings were being misused by the Marcionites to replace the OT scriptures.

There were four elements, therefore, in the Christian situation that underlay the writing of the Pastoral Epistles: (1) the lack of efficient church organization; (2) the menace of the sects; (3) the undermining of the old Scripture; and (4) the misuse of Paul.

Part of the duties of a Christian minister is to uphold the OT scriptures.

He must be prepared to meet all sorts of wickedness on the part of the schismatics; he must expect persecution but must imitate Paul's example and stand by the Scriptures and what he has been taught, 3:1-17.

So the author is referring to the Hebrew Bible, not the NT. Not even Paul's writings. The Marcionites had raised Paul's writings to scripture status within their sect. So the author was defending the use of the Jewish scriptures, not the NT.

They find their appropriate setting in the middle of the second century, when Marcionism and Gnosticism confronted the church, Paul was being discredited through Marcion's adoption of him as his patron saint, the Christian use of the Jewish scripture was being undermined, and church organization needed to be standardized.

Marcion's repudiation of the Jewish scripture, which had long been the Bible of the church, leads to the reassertion of its authority; the consecrating effect of its use in prayer, I Tim. 4:5; the duty of reading it publicly before the church, 4:13; and above all the great assertion of II Tim. 3:16: "All scripture is divinely inspired, and useful in teaching, in reproof, in correcting faults, and in training in uprightness." This is a denial of one of Marcion's most emphatic tenets, and much more; it is the extension to the whole of the Greek Old Testament of the doctrine of verbal inspiration, which Palestinian Judaism had applied only to the five books of the Law—a step that brought allegorical interpretation in its wake.

Where have I been directing you concerning sin? The OT.

quote:
In the next passages Paul is citing from the gospels and he is calling it scripture.

1Co 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which also I received: that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
1Co 15:4 and that he was buried; and that he hath been raised on the third day according to the scriptures;

Again the reality behind the Bible makes your statement false. The gospels weren't written at the time Paul wrote 1 Corinthians (50-60CE). Plus, Paul is referring to Jewish scripture as described above. Remember, Paul was a Jew.

quote:
Therefore I am compelled to believe what Paul taught in scripture and what the bible itself teaches that all men are born sinners, here again Paul is quoting from the old testament passage I gave in an earlier post of mine describing the unrighteous state of mankind. We are not sinners because we sin, we sin because we are sinners.

Rom 3:10 as it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one;

I addressed Romans 3:10-18 in Message 89 to which you didn't respond. Paul is using D'Rash which means he is combining two or more unrelated verses to create a third meaning. Read the post. Briefly that one line is pulled from a song and talking about fools, not everyone. According to PARDES, A d'rash understanding can not be used to strip a passage of its p'shat meaning, nor may any such understanding contradict the p'shat meaning of any other scripture passage. As the Talmud states, "No passage loses its p'shat." P'shat means the plain text meaning. Now if you feel my plain reading of that OT text is incorrect, then explain how you read it differently. IMO, all Paul is really trying to say is that everyone screws up. No one is any better than anyone else even though some are behaving now and others aren't. Like I've said before, he is making an argument. We need to read the whole thing to understand his eventual point. Start a thread if you want to discuss Paul's writings.

quote:
Interestingly purpledawn you started out denying sin altogether but in your much later posts it looks to me as if you have softened up to the idea of sin, (your conscience must have gotten to you). Well that is how God operates he comes as a thief in the night, and so by the time you become cognizant of his presence he has already stolen your heart.
Read Message 10

Again, reality proves you wrong.

Lying is a sin, right?

Edited by purpledawn, : Removed extra word.


"Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz

This message is a reply to:
 Message 411 by Cedre, posted 04-28-2009 5:05 AM Cedre has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 422 by Cedre, posted 04-28-2009 8:44 AM purpledawn has responded

Cedre
Member (Idle past 302 days)
Posts: 350
From: Russia
Joined: 01-30-2009


Message 422 of 454 (506660)
04-28-2009 8:44 AM
Reply to: Message 421 by purpledawn
04-28-2009 7:49 AM


Re: Forget about Goodspeed, he's a creep
I don’t take Mr. Goodspeed seriously, he is a disgrace to biblical scholasticism so how can I take your claims seriously if you based them on Mr. Goodspeed’s work (enlightened scholars have happily disagreed with Mr. Goodspeed’s work on many points and his translation of the bible is regarded by many to be heresy.)
Therefore I will advise you to expand your Google search, and check out other scholars as well even the conservative scholars, compare and weigh what they all have said regarding a particular issue, does scripture support what they say do they undermine scriptures authority and so on.

Nevertheless I give you scripture and at best you give me a man’s interpretation of scripture a liberal scholar to be more precise these guys (liberalists) are fond of undermining the bible’s authenticity and are not taken too seriously in scholastic circles and by most theologians, pastors and the like man who commit their lives to the understanding of scripture.

Paul does not claim to speak for God.

Let’s turn to the bible shall we,

1Co 14:37 If any man thinketh himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him take knowledge of the things which I write unto you, that they are the commandment of the Lord.

Here but just one scripture in which Paul is saying that what he is writing is actually commandments of the Lord, capital L, he is speaking for God; there are many more verses similar to this one, here is one more:

2Th 3:14 And if any man obeyeth not our word by this epistle, note that man, that ye have no company with him, to the end that he may be ashamed.

I could have given you more had I more time on my hands

Unfortunately you don't do that, you just provide another verse.

You have no idea what I do and do not do.

I've told said before that I feel all the writers were inspired, but they are inspired for their time and their audience. God isn't having them deal with the future, he is having them deal with their time, their reality.

This is just another of your unfounded high claims.

I have consistently left links or references to where I have gotten my information. Early Christian Writings, Commontaries by Edgar Goodspeed, History of Christianity, History of the Jews, etc.

This man’s work is questionable; I wonder why you esteem his viewpoints so much. There are other scholars out there far more adept than this guy, try to look into their work for a change. And also look at Goodspeed’s work a bit more critically don’t with a mind wide open just receiving anything he has written.

I've already made my case and you've already made my case for me by your own statements, so why the puffer fish imitation?

I see you’re a dreamer as well.

(2Ti 3:16) All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Scripture is not a living thing, it can't say anything about itself.


Nonsense words can have absolute meanings, and the above verse is very clear even a child will understand it.

Let's look at the reality behind 2 Timothy since you want to understand how I determine.

You mean reality as determined Goodspeed; this guy is not for real. Is he supposed to be a biblical scholar or a bible critic?

According to Mr. Goodspeed, 2 Tim is not written by Paul. It was written about 100-150 CE. Christians are no longer expecting a quick return of Christ, so the church has to adjust.

Exactly according to Mr. Goodspeed, not necessarily according to the evidence. History is not like empirical science; you don’t go back to the past to examine you work from the present.

So the author is referring to the Hebrew Bible, not the NT. Not even Paul's writings. The Marcionites had raised Paul's writings to scripture status within their sect. So the author was defending the use of the Jewish scriptures, not the NT.

How did you get to this conclusion, did you get into Paul’s mind to determine this?

The Marcionites had raised Paul's writings to scripture status within their sect.

So I guess Peter the apostle of Jesus must also be a Marcionite, because here he says:

2Pe 3:16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; wherein are some things hard to be understood, which the ignorant and unstedfast wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Again the reality behind the Bible makes your statement false. The gospels weren't written at the time Paul wrote 1 Corinthians (50-60CE). Plus, Paul is referring to Jewish scripture as described above. Remember, Paul was a Jew.

High-flown claims all of it. If you read Paul’s epistle you will notice that he quotes repeatedly from the gospels. Go ahead and read them, you might learn something.

addressed Romans 3:10-18 in Message 89 to which you didn't respond. Paul is using D'Rash which means he is combining two or more unrelated verses to create a third meaning. Read the post. Briefly that one line is pulled from a song and talking about fools, not everyone. According to PARDES, A d'rash understanding can not be used to strip a passage of its p'shat meaning, nor may any such understanding contradict the p'shat meaning of any other scripture passage. As the Talmud states, "No passage loses its p'shat." P'shat means the plain text meaning. Now if you feel my plain reading of that OT text is incorrect, then explain how you read it differently. IMO, all Paul is really trying to say is that everyone screws up. No one is any better than anyone else even though some are behaving now and others aren't. Like I've said before, he is making an argument. We need to read the whole thing to understand his eventual point. Start a thread if you want to discuss Paul's writings.

Paul is quoting from Job; this verse appears in nearly the same form there it also appears in Psa 14:1. Paul is indeed saying what he is saying and this is proof that we are all born sinful. If certain folks were not born sinful, than why don’t we have the case where someone had lived forever, death is a direct consequence of sin, the fact that everyone dies means that we are all sinful even babies die meaning that we sin because we are sinners and not sinners because we sin. And Paul wrote under God’s inspiration and he cannot be wrong ever, because God cannot be wrong ever. So this passage is saying exactly what it is saying and what it’s suppose to say, that no man is righteous.

Edited by Cedre, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 421 by purpledawn, posted 04-28-2009 7:49 AM purpledawn has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 425 by purpledawn, posted 04-28-2009 9:23 AM Cedre has responded

Phage0070
Inactive Member


Message 423 of 454 (506661)
04-28-2009 8:45 AM
Reply to: Message 420 by Cedre
04-28-2009 7:31 AM


Re: Phage0070
Cedre writes:

If God had never punished any wrongs then he would be a liar because in his word the bible he is also described as a judge, the judges in righteousness and in truth.


You keep using that argument; do you really think that God not being a liar is a logical proof? You have not established that God is not a liar, in fact you have not even established that he exists.

Cedre writes:

According to you it would be more loving for the judge to let the criminals loose without punishment each time they committed a crime, because to punish them would turn him into an evil lunatic. Does this make sense?


Not for the reasons you imply. A parent spanking a child and a judge punishing a criminal have a similar goal, the modification of behavior. You will note that we don’t punish retarded people for doing retarded things, or infants for pooping, etc. In those cases our punishments don’t serve any purpose because they are incapable of stopping their undesirable behavior, and would be viewed as cruel.

If we are actually incapable of not sinning then God’s punishments serve no purpose; especially death which makes improved behavior even more impossible. How is this behavior consistent with your concept of a loving god?

Cedre writes:

You are fond of making statements ad lib.


That makes sense; “Ad lib” is short for “Ad libitum” which is Latin for “at one’s pleasure”. In essence you have said that I am fond of making statements at my pleasure.

Cedre writes:

Hate results in death, Jesus said, if you hate your brother in your heart you have surely killed him already. How true this words are, seeing that hate leads to murder.


It does not take much to impress you does it?

Cedre writes:

So you see your very existence is prove that God loves you, listen if you were to die today you would go to hell as said by the bible, the fact that you are still alive is that God is sparing your life until some point you accept his free gift of salvation so that you can escape death and hell. Your existence testifies to God’s love for humanity.


There is another point, how does God justify beating people into submission to his will? We have already established that doing exactly what God wants is inconsistent with our nature, and it isn’t like God has a legitimate need for anything we can provide. It seems like God would be helping us more if he simply stopped tormenting us and let us be.

Also, if we are simply living through torturous conditions until we accept salvation then why do people who accept still get tortured rather than killed instantly or having a life free from torment? That is like being given a pardon but having to finish out the day in the torture room because that’s when they normally check out.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 420 by Cedre, posted 04-28-2009 7:31 AM Cedre has not yet responded

purpledawn
Member (Idle past 1840 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 424 of 454 (506664)
04-28-2009 8:59 AM
Reply to: Message 408 by Peg
04-28-2009 3:28 AM


Re: contradiction?
quote:
Im not having any problem finding support for the truth that we ARE sinners. The bible supports that statement as can be seen by those verses i quoted in msg 394
And I responded in Message 396

Sin is still a religious term, not a secular term.

The thread isn't about whether people sin or not. No one has denied that people sin. The thread concerns whether we are prisoners of sin or the idea that sin is a thing that possesses people. The idea that no one can be deemed righteous even though they are behaving. The idea that past sins are not forgotten by God once one has repented. The idea that sin is inherited. I think that's all the oddities that arose.

Paul used the idea that we are all "sinners" as a means to equalize. Don't confuse persuasion techniques with reality.

One is a sinner when one is doing something wrong. Once one has repented and stops the wrong behavior, one is no longer a sinner. Read the parable of the lost sheep (Luke 15). This point has been made several times. Notice that tax collectors and sinners were gathering around Jesus. At the end of the parable Jesus said, "I tell you that in the same way there will be more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who do not need to repent."

So either you believe that there are people who do not need to repent and are not considered sinners as Jesus said or you don't. Apparently you don't and I do. Apparently you believe that Jesus reneged on that statement through Paul.

The wise men who wrote the Proverbs did not consider the righteous and the sinner to be the same. See also Proverbs 11:31, and 13:22.

Proverbs 13:21 Misfortune pursues the sinner, but prosperity is the reward of the righteous.

Our depressing author of Ecclesiastes would disagree that there is no difference.

9:2 All share a common destiny--the righteous and the wicked, the good and the bad, the clean and the unclean, those who offer sacrifices and those who do not. As it is with the good man, so with the sinner; as it is with those who take oaths, so with those who are afraid to take them.

Even the unknown author of 1 Peter which is supposedly written about 80-110 CE shows a difference. This is written after Paul's influence.

4:18 And, "If it is hard for the righteous to be saved, what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?"

When one is behaving good, one is considered good. When one is behaving badly, one is a sinner. Once one repents and starts behaving good, they are consider good, not a sinner.

quote:
and yet the bible continues to be a book that is very practical for the modern world. God is the author of the bible and there are parts of it that are still in the process of coming to fulfillment...so there is no way that it is not meant for us today.
If you can't comprehend what I'm saying how can you understand stories from an ancient book?
I said the authors wrote for their time, not ours. I didn't say there weren't any useful lessons in the Bible, but one needs to understand what the author was trying to tell his audience in his time to know what lesson is to be learned. Even the prophecies were not written for us today. They were written for the audience of the time. That would be another thread though.


"Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz

This message is a reply to:
 Message 408 by Peg, posted 04-28-2009 3:28 AM Peg has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 438 by Peg, posted 04-29-2009 2:38 AM purpledawn has responded

purpledawn
Member (Idle past 1840 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 425 of 454 (506667)
04-28-2009 9:23 AM
Reply to: Message 422 by Cedre
04-28-2009 8:44 AM


Re: Forget about Goodspeed, he's a creep
Now you just trudging out the same old stuff helter skelter with no reasonable explanations and not seriously addressing what I've presented.

This thread has pretty much run its course.


"Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz

This message is a reply to:
 Message 422 by Cedre, posted 04-28-2009 8:44 AM Cedre has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 426 by Cedre, posted 04-28-2009 9:28 AM purpledawn has responded

Cedre
Member (Idle past 302 days)
Posts: 350
From: Russia
Joined: 01-30-2009


Message 426 of 454 (506668)
04-28-2009 9:28 AM
Reply to: Message 425 by purpledawn
04-28-2009 9:23 AM


Re: Forget about Goodspeed, he's a creep
Purpledawn you have shown not to understand scripture properly, its no surprise you are a student of Goodspeed. You have presented nothing but fallacious ideas by a man who has very little respect for God's word. Like I said read the other scholars as well especially conservative scholars they are less likely to compromise with God's word.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 425 by purpledawn, posted 04-28-2009 9:23 AM purpledawn has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 427 by purpledawn, posted 04-28-2009 9:42 AM Cedre has responded
 Message 428 by Coragyps, posted 04-28-2009 9:43 AM Cedre has not yet responded

purpledawn
Member (Idle past 1840 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 427 of 454 (506670)
04-28-2009 9:42 AM
Reply to: Message 426 by Cedre
04-28-2009 9:28 AM


Re: Forget about Goodspeed, he's a creep
Cedre you have shown not to understand what the inspired authors of the Bible intended for us to know. Stop lumping everything I've said with Goodspeed. There are other resources which I provided. I'm not a student of Goodspeed, he's dead. His stuff happens to be online and easy for people to read should they decide to think.

Unfortunately you didn't see fit to make a credible argument against what I've present, just rants and character assassination. I waited and hoped for substance, but to no avail.

And still you provide no other scholars or counter argument. I have no problem with the Bible, I have a problem with the doctrine you presented and what you claim is God's support for such thoughts.

Actually I feel that you have no respect for the Bible. How can you respect the authors if you don't like what they actually say?


"Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz

This message is a reply to:
 Message 426 by Cedre, posted 04-28-2009 9:28 AM Cedre has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 429 by Cedre, posted 04-28-2009 10:03 AM purpledawn has responded

Coragyps
Member
Posts: 5425
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002
Member Rating: 5.5


Message 428 of 454 (506671)
04-28-2009 9:43 AM
Reply to: Message 426 by Cedre
04-28-2009 9:28 AM


Re: Forget about Goodspeed, he's a creep
you have shown not to understand scripture properly...

And it is Understood Properly by whom, Cedre? Just you?

This thread ran its course long ago. Purpledawn, I admire your patience.


"The wretched world lies now under the tyranny of foolishness; things are believed by Christians of such absurdity as no one ever could aforetime induce the heathen to believe." - Agobard of Lyons, ca. 830 AD

This message is a reply to:
 Message 426 by Cedre, posted 04-28-2009 9:28 AM Cedre has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 432 by Bailey, posted 04-28-2009 10:39 AM Coragyps has not yet responded

Cedre
Member (Idle past 302 days)
Posts: 350
From: Russia
Joined: 01-30-2009


Message 429 of 454 (506672)
04-28-2009 10:03 AM
Reply to: Message 427 by purpledawn
04-28-2009 9:42 AM


Re: Forget about Goodspeed, he's a creep
what am I suppose to refute you have not made a case to refute. The Epistles of Paul and the rest of the bible clearly states that we are prisoners of sin. The fact that we can't refrain from sin entirely demonstrates this fact. Just look around you, its bad its really bad, its turned into an epidemic. You may counter this by saying well, I am no prisoner because I don't kill or steal or lie or what have you but as James has stated in his letter, if we err on one point we have erred on all other points so seeing that we all erred including Mother Teresa or Gandhi including Paul, a man that has had direct confrontations with God who can say I am not a prisoner of sin.

For example if you are addicted to a particular drug you are its prisoner whether you takes just a little of it at a time or loads of it all at once, you still are its prisoner, because regardless of the portions you take you can't stop taking it. The same is true with sin, whether all you do is be dishonest from time to time, you still are a prisoner of dishonesty. If you want to show that you're not a prisoner of sin then don't ever screw up again. Ever. If you succeed at doing this then I will confess that there is no such thing as a prisoner of sin.

However if you screw up you tell a lie, or you lust or you hate somebody or whatever the case then we must conclude that since you couldn't stay without sinning that you are in fact a prisoner.

Edited by Cedre, : No reason given.

Edited by Cedre, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 427 by purpledawn, posted 04-28-2009 9:42 AM purpledawn has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 430 by purpledawn, posted 04-28-2009 10:20 AM Cedre has responded
 Message 437 by onifre, posted 04-28-2009 4:36 PM Cedre has responded

purpledawn
Member (Idle past 1840 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 430 of 454 (506674)
04-28-2009 10:20 AM
Reply to: Message 429 by Cedre
04-28-2009 10:03 AM


Re: Forget about Goodspeed, he's a creep
quote:
If you succeed at doing this then I will confess that there is no such thing as a prisoner of sin.
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Round and round we go. Been there done that argument. Go back and read the thread.

You aren't paying attention. Do you not understand personification either? The claim that all mankind is a prisoner of sin, is proven false by reality and your own comments. Message 404

Sin is not a living thing to be anyone's warden. Some people may feel like they can't do anything right, but the average person does have the capacity to do what's right.

Literally, there is no such thing as a prisoner of sin.

Game Over!


"Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz

This message is a reply to:
 Message 429 by Cedre, posted 04-28-2009 10:03 AM Cedre has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 431 by Cedre, posted 04-28-2009 10:33 AM purpledawn has responded

Cedre
Member (Idle past 302 days)
Posts: 350
From: Russia
Joined: 01-30-2009


Message 431 of 454 (506676)
04-28-2009 10:33 AM
Reply to: Message 430 by purpledawn
04-28-2009 10:20 AM


Re: Forget about Goodspeed, he's a creep
Purpledawn by your own admission you are addicted to sin. The fact that you can't completely lay it off makes you an addict. You wanted external proof that human's are prisoners of sin there's your external proof. You just can't put the sin bottle down forever, eventually you will take a sip from it, who knows maybe even a gulp.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 430 by purpledawn, posted 04-28-2009 10:20 AM purpledawn has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 433 by Michamus, posted 04-28-2009 12:22 PM Cedre has not yet responded
 Message 435 by purpledawn, posted 04-28-2009 12:49 PM Cedre has not yet responded

Bailey
Member (Idle past 2753 days)
Posts: 574
From: Earth
Joined: 08-24-2003


Message 432 of 454 (506679)
04-28-2009 10:39 AM
Reply to: Message 428 by Coragyps
04-28-2009 9:43 AM


cora writes:

ced writes:

you have shown not to understand scripture properly...

And it is Understood Properly by whom, Cedre? Just you?

This thread ran its course long ago. Purpledawn, I admire your patience.

Ditto cora ... the patience displayed has been very appreciated and encouraging.

Also, thank you for the lack of sarcasm and clear presentations Chief purpledawn.

And thank you for your efforts as well cedre ...

One Love

Edited by Bailey, : sp.


I'm not here to mock or condemn what you believe, I'm just a fool playing with ideas.
My only intention is to tickle your thinker. Trust nothing I say. Learn for yourself.
Think for yourself.

Mercy Trumps Judgement,
Love Weary


This message is a reply to:
 Message 428 by Coragyps, posted 04-28-2009 9:43 AM Coragyps has not yet responded

Michamus
Member (Idle past 3540 days)
Posts: 230
From: Ft Hood, TX
Joined: 03-16-2009


Message 433 of 454 (506699)
04-28-2009 12:22 PM
Reply to: Message 431 by Cedre
04-28-2009 10:33 AM


Re: Forget about Goodspeed, he's a creep
Cedre writes:


The fact that you can't completely lay it off makes you an addict


This coming from the person with a needle and syringe representing Jesus as a drug...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 431 by Cedre, posted 04-28-2009 10:33 AM Cedre has not yet responded

Michamus
Member (Idle past 3540 days)
Posts: 230
From: Ft Hood, TX
Joined: 03-16-2009


Message 434 of 454 (506700)
04-28-2009 12:31 PM
Reply to: Message 416 by Cedre
04-28-2009 6:37 AM


Re: Re High claims from Michamus
Cedre writes:


Its official guy you have chucked out four years of your lif in seminary.


Excellent dodge... What exactly is a lif though?
(And BTW, I am still awaiting your statement of qualifications in regard to academic training on scriptural study)

Cedre writes:


Job isn't again shedding any light on the authenticity of that passage all he is saying is, it would not be hard for me to say such things if your souls were in my soul's place; joining words together against you, and shaking my head at you.


But does he? No. Why? Because he disagrees with their message... This is basic comprehension. If someone says to me "You are an idiot", I have two options... say "No I'm not, you're the idiot" or say "How easy it is to live a life of negativity. I prefer looking at the good in people, because I feel there is good in people." Throughout the book, Job obviously regards his ordeal as a test from God, not a punishment.

Cedre writes:


You need to get some new reading glasses sir cos your current pair is expired.


ROFLMAO! You really are so short on rebuttals that you have to revert to this? Do you realize how ridiculous this makes you look?

I agree with everyone who has mentioned thus far that this thread is over. Everyone, including the obviously long-suffering purpledawn has given you ample opportunities to see the flaw in your perceptions. Ample opportunities and examples describing that the Bible as a whole does not agree with you. You choose however, to ignore these in a fashion akin to an ostrich, if you don't see it, it can't be there.

Until you open your mind from the closed world in which it resides, and recognize that the only person who agrees with what you believe in regard to this topic is you, you will be a prisoner of your own mind. You will be eternally tormented with the concept that you are an evil entity, when in fact, the Bible says opposite.

Edited by Michamus, : Minor typo

Edited by Michamus, : typo fixing the typo >.<

Edited by Michamus, : Is there an end to the typos?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 416 by Cedre, posted 04-28-2009 6:37 AM Cedre has not yet responded

purpledawn
Member (Idle past 1840 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 435 of 454 (506702)
04-28-2009 12:49 PM
Reply to: Message 431 by Cedre
04-28-2009 10:33 AM


Re: Forget about Goodspeed, he's a creep
quote:
Purpledawn by your own admission you are addicted to sin.
That's lie #2, the other is in Message 411. God is not going to be happy with you.

So you had a clear choice. To lie or not to lie. Why did you choose to lie about what I've written? Why did you choose to sin?

Why make such blatant lies that are easy to check out?

All that I've said is available to check. So show me that your lies are not lies.

Link to the post where I deny sin altogether.
Link to the post where I admit that I'm addicted to sin.

Otherwise, you need to repent.

quote:
You just can't put the sin bottle down forever, eventually you will take a sip from it, who knows maybe even a gulp.
I'm afraid alcoholic analogies are lost on me. I don't drink alcohol, never have. But by your own analogy, I'm not sinning now so I'm not a prisoner of sin.

Checkmate

ABE: This is why an author needs to know his audience. If the author uses a wrong analogy, slang, or turn of phrase that the audience doesn't identify with, the author can't draw them into what he's selling, arguing, teaching, etc.

Edited by purpledawn, : ABE


"Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz

This message is a reply to:
 Message 431 by Cedre, posted 04-28-2009 10:33 AM Cedre has not yet responded

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