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Author Topic:   Are Catholics and Protestants that different?
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 91 of 157 (370467)
12-17-2006 6:27 PM
Reply to: Message 81 by Hyroglyphx
12-17-2006 4:50 PM


Re: Baptismal regeneration
nemesis_juggernaut writes:
Are you then saying that infant baptism is merely a formality and has nothing to do with salvation? If it was just a dog-and-pony show I don't think anyone would have a problem with that.
Any baptism is a dog-and-pony show. Baptism is a ritual - it has no more to do with salvation than the colour of your tie.
As a public ritual, it has meaning for the participants and for the Church as a whole. It symbolizes not just the "cleansing" of an individual but also the commitment of the Church to the spiritual well-being of the individual. As such, the age of the individual is irrelevant.
When an infant is baptized, he/she is effectively "adopted" by the Church. If he/she later becomes a prodigal son/daughter, that in no way diminishes the Church's obligation to fulfill its side of the "contract".
Edited by Ringo, : Typo.

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This message is a reply to:
 Message 81 by Hyroglyphx, posted 12-17-2006 4:50 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 94 by Hyroglyphx, posted 12-17-2006 7:44 PM ringo has replied

  
AdminBuzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 92 of 157 (370470)
12-17-2006 6:30 PM
Reply to: Message 90 by jar
12-17-2006 6:20 PM


Re: sacramentalism and the mass
Jar, you are not the one to determine the OP of this thread. It has been shown that there are differences in some of the sacraments as well as mass in many non Catholic churches. I repeat, if Phat wishes to narrow the scope of this thread that is his perrogative. Carry on and again, please stop being nitpickey and disruptive here.
TO ALL CONCERNED: IF YOU WISH TO DISCUSS THIS ACTION, PLEASE DO NOT RESPOND HERE. TAKE IT TO THE MODERATION THREAD. THANK YOU.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 90 by jar, posted 12-17-2006 6:20 PM jar has not replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 93 of 157 (370491)
12-17-2006 7:37 PM
Reply to: Message 87 by jar
12-17-2006 5:58 PM


Re: Baptismal regeneration
Episcopalians, Anglicans, Lutherans, Methodists, Presbyterians are Protestants. Luther, Knox, Zwingli, Henry VIII; these are names that define the Reformation, define the Protestant Movement.
I know they are considered Protestant. I was merely showing you that they all have Roman Catholic baggage-- beliefs that are not found in the Bible. In other words, its an emphasis on tradition, rather than sound doctrine. And then I said that Anglicans and Episcopalians especially carry that traditionalist baggage.
I pointed out to you that there are Protestant Churches where the Rites of Baptism and Confirmation are the same as in the Roman Catholic Church.
And I agree that many, if not most, Protestant denominations carry that old RCC baggage. But at some point, you are going to have to consider why there was ever a Reformation at all! You say they are so similar, yet, if they are similar in every way, which you seem to advocate, explain why there was ever a division.
What you have brought up is NOT a difference between Protestant and Roman Catholic Doctrine but between dogma and practices in some Protestant sects with the vast majority of Christians Churches, Protestant and Roman Catholic.
Okay, so you have an aversion to my usage of the word "doctrine" and think what I'm really speaking about is differences in "dogma." Okay, fine. From now on I will substitute doctrine for dogma.
Do you guys ever even read the Bible?
Indeed I do, which is how I know that many practices of the RCC do not coincide.
Do you know who John the Baptist is and what he did?
No, who is that guy?
Did you even bother reading the Rite of Confirmation?
The Rite of Confirmation is apart of liturgy and catechisms. Its not apart of my dogma because it isn't apart of the Bible.
I have shown specific examples where Protestant Doctrine and Roman Catholic Doctrine are the same.
Then why is any group distinguished from the other if there aren't any differences? If you are saying that Catholics and Protestants agree on the major aspects of Christianity and disagree on more trivial matters, I certainly agree. But you are making it seem as if there are no differences between Catholics and Protestants. I have listed several sources of contention.
The topic is differences between Protestant and Roman Catholic Doctrine, not differences between Protest and Roman Catholic Doctrine versus some Fundie/Evangelical/Pentecostal Doctrines.
Since you object to everything I've written and claim that I'm continually off topic, then you list the differences between Catholics and Protestants. As far as I can tell, you believe there is no disparity between the two sects.

"With derision the atheist points out that there can be no God because this world is so unfair. Without hesitation, I concur with him. Indeed, we live in an unfair world because of all sorts of social ills and perils. I must not contend with such a sentiment because it is factual-- we don't live in a fair world. Grace is unambiguous proof that we live in an unfair world. I received salvation when I deserved condemnation. Yes, indeed this world is unfair." -Andrew Jaramillo-

This message is a reply to:
 Message 87 by jar, posted 12-17-2006 5:58 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 95 by jar, posted 12-17-2006 8:06 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 94 of 157 (370493)
12-17-2006 7:44 PM
Reply to: Message 91 by ringo
12-17-2006 6:27 PM


Re: Baptismal regeneration
Any baptism is a dog-and-pony show. Baptism is a ritual - it has no more to do with salvation than the colour of your tie.
Amen, I fully agree. That's not to speak disparagingly about baptism, only to distinguish what it really is. Its a declaration of salvation.
As a public ritual, it has meaning for the participants and for the Church as a whole. It symbolizes not just the "cleansing" of an individual but also the commitment of the Church to the spiritual well-being of the individual.
I fully agree.
As such, the age of the individual is irrelevant.
Well, to commit to something, one has to first possess the understanding of a commitment. Infants can't make that choice when its being made for them. That's not how salvation works. Therefore, sprinkling water on the head of an infant is sprinkling water on the head of an infant and nothing more, IMO. In that way, age is relevant.

"With derision the atheist points out that there can be no God because this world is so unfair. Without hesitation, I concur with him. Indeed, we live in an unfair world because of all sorts of social ills and perils. I must not contend with such a sentiment because it is factual-- we don't live in a fair world. Grace is unambiguous proof that we live in an unfair world. I received salvation when I deserved condemnation. Yes, indeed this world is unfair." -Andrew Jaramillo-

This message is a reply to:
 Message 91 by ringo, posted 12-17-2006 6:27 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 110 by ringo, posted 12-17-2006 11:50 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 95 of 157 (370503)
12-17-2006 8:06 PM
Reply to: Message 93 by Hyroglyphx
12-17-2006 7:37 PM


Differences between Roman Catholic and Protestant Doctrine.
Since you object to everything I've written and claim that I'm continually off topic, then you list the differences between Catholics and Protestants. As far as I can tell, you believe there is no disparity between the two sects.
If you had bothered reading what I have written you would know that I have said there are greater differences between the vast body or Christian Churches, both Protestant and Roman Catholic, and the Fundamentalist, Evangelical and Pentecostal sub-sects of Protestantism than between Protestant and Roman Catholic Doctrine.
If you would like to discuss the origins of Protestantism and the Reformation, a subject I used to teach in Adult Sunday School, start a thread on it.
As to differences between Roman Catholicism and Protestantism, there actually are a few. The tradition of Priest and Nun celibacy is one. A second is the Doctrine of "Ex Cathedra".
BUT, almost every one of the issues that actually lead to the reformation were adopted by the Roman Catholic Church at the Council of Trent. The Roman Catholic Church DID reform.
The split went on for several reasons, but not reasons related to religion or doctrine. The great rift went on because communications were slow, people wanted power, the masses had become polarized, politics, the conflict in calendars and a host of other very human considerations.
As I said, start a thread on it if you want.
And EVERY one of the issues you guys have brought up so far are those where some Protestants differ from ALL other Christians including the vast majority of Protestants and Roman Catholics.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 93 by Hyroglyphx, posted 12-17-2006 7:37 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 96 by Hyroglyphx, posted 12-17-2006 8:53 PM jar has replied
 Message 113 by truthlover, posted 12-18-2006 12:05 AM jar has replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 96 of 157 (370519)
12-17-2006 8:53 PM
Reply to: Message 95 by jar
12-17-2006 8:06 PM


Re: Differences between Roman Catholic and Protestant Doctrine.
If you had bothered reading what I have written you would know that I have said there are greater differences between the vast body or Christian Churches, both Protestant and Roman Catholic, and the Fundamentalist, Evangelical and Pentecostal sub-sects of Protestantism than between Protestant and Roman Catholic Doctrine.
I know there are differences between the denominations, most of which that focus on the non-essentials, which is why I choose to be non-denominational. I just want to know what you think the differences are between Catholics and Protestants, since you've nominated yourself as the authority in the matter.
As to differences between Roman Catholicism and Protestantism, there actually are a few. The tradition of Priest and Nun celibacy is one. A second is the Doctrine of "Ex Cathedra".
BUT, almost every one of the issues that actually lead to the reformation were adopted by the Roman Catholic Church at the Council of Trent. The Roman Catholic Church DID reform.
The Catholic Reformation was as a direct result of the Protestant Reformation. And Luther addressed everything that I have mentioned as reasons for leaving the Roman Catholic Church-- to include, the veneration of Mary, the authoritative Pope as the "Vicar of Christ," purgatory, the sacraments, so on and so forth. Yet, you say that I'm OT when those are the very reasons for the split and those are still, to this day, the greater sources of contention between the two sects. Probably the biggest issue was with the belief that attaining holy relics could appease God for the lives of those trapped in Purgatory. This seems like such a silly thing today, but that was a real belief back in the day.
I have noticed, possibly as a direct result of that antiquated belief, that many Catholics have a fascination with relics or anything tangible. They seem to have an emphasis on caricatures, statues, alters, prayer beads, and all around tangible objects.
For instance, the belief in the "Spear of Destiny" or the "Holy Grail" or the "Shroud of Turin" are all inferences deduced by the Catholic Church that getting a hold of these items might somehow bestow the possessors some mystical power. That is a complete defilement, in my opinion, of what a spiritual life is supposed to consist of.
The split went on for several reasons, but not reasons related to religion or doctrine. The great rift went on because communications were slow, people wanted power, the masses had become polarized, politics, the conflict in calendars and a host of other very human considerations.
I'm certain that any one of those reasons certainly exacerbated the issue, especially the polarization of the masses growing disenchanted with the power of the Church. But I think those grew out of a Church that synthesized the original meanings of Christianity.
And EVERY one of the issues you guys have brought up so far are those where some Protestants differ from ALL other Christians including the vast majority of Protestants and Roman Catholics.
Read up the Reformation, because most of which I listed existed in the 16th century.

"With derision the atheist points out that there can be no God because this world is so unfair. Without hesitation, I concur with him. Indeed, we live in an unfair world because of all sorts of social ills and perils. I must not contend with such a sentiment because it is factual-- we don't live in a fair world. Grace is unambiguous proof that we live in an unfair world. I received salvation when I deserved condemnation. Yes, indeed this world is unfair." -Andrew Jaramillo-

This message is a reply to:
 Message 95 by jar, posted 12-17-2006 8:06 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 97 by jar, posted 12-17-2006 9:10 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied
 Message 99 by kuresu, posted 12-17-2006 10:31 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied
 Message 100 by jar, posted 12-17-2006 10:33 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 97 of 157 (370525)
12-17-2006 9:10 PM
Reply to: Message 96 by Hyroglyphx
12-17-2006 8:53 PM


Re: Differences between Roman Catholic and Protestant Doctrine.
Read up the Reformation, because most of which I listed existed in the 16th century.
And, as I said, were reformed by the Councils of Trent.
The Catholic Reformation was as a direct result of the Protestant Reformation. And Luther addressed everything that I have mentioned as reasons for leaving the Roman Catholic Church-- to include, the veneration of Mary, the authoritative Pope as the "Vicar of Christ," purgatory, the sacraments, so on and so forth.
Sorry but Protestants recognize the same sacraments as the Roman Catholics.
Protestants Venerate Mary as I have shown.
So two of the four things you mentioned are simply totally false.
Of the other two, Protestants still recognize the Pope as the "Vicar of Christ". That is one of the Titles of the Papacy just as "Defender of the Faith" (which happens to refer to the Roman Catholic Faith) is one of the Titles of the British Monarchy, a decidedly Protestant person.
That leaves Purgatory as the one difference that is uniformly rejected by Protestants.
I am happy to add Purgatory to the two other differences I've mentioned. That means the list so far is:
  • the Doctrine of "Ex Cathedra"
  • celibacy of Priests and Nuns.
  • the Doctrine of Purgatory.
HOWEVER, so far not one of the assertions in the OP has been supported.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by Hyroglyphx, posted 12-17-2006 8:53 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
anastasia
Member (Idle past 5952 days)
Posts: 1857
From: Bucks County, PA
Joined: 11-05-2006


Message 98 of 157 (370534)
12-17-2006 10:13 PM
Reply to: Message 85 by nator
12-17-2006 5:36 PM


Re: Back on topic
schrafinator writes:
Yes, and didn't the current Pope just go to Turkey to meet with Muslim religious leaders and actually pray in a mosque while visiting it?
Hi schrafinator,
Yes, he did.
The Pope may pray wherever he likes, as can we.
The popes recently have been acting very un-traditionally in such matters. John Paul II and Benedict are the only popes ever to have visited a mosque, and what they are doing as world leaders to aid the cause of peace is controversial or at least misleading at times.
The church still holds to the logic that though two groups profess to follow a Biblical God, if one group believes in a Trinity God, and the other believes in a God who will destroy such believers, then the two can not possibly be worshipping the same God.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 85 by nator, posted 12-17-2006 5:36 PM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 128 by nator, posted 12-18-2006 10:12 AM anastasia has replied

  
kuresu
Member (Idle past 2513 days)
Posts: 2544
From: boulder, colorado
Joined: 03-24-2006


Message 99 of 157 (370536)
12-17-2006 10:31 PM
Reply to: Message 96 by Hyroglyphx
12-17-2006 8:53 PM


Re: Differences between Roman Catholic and Protestant Doctrine.
any one of those reasons certainly exacerbated the issue, especially the polarization of the masses growing disenchanted with the power of the Church
actually, the masses had very little input in the protestant reformation. when Martin Luther published his "Freedom of a Christian", plenty of German Peasants understood him as also meaning they were free of the head political authority figures (or social freedom). In response to the violence commited by the peasant groups, Martin Luther published "Against the Thieving, Murderous Hordes of Peasants". He detested their revolt.
The P. reformation was backed by german princes who basically wanted to be free of papal dominion. With the refusal of papal authority made explicit in the reformation, it gave them a way out. the reformation was backed in England for similar reasons, not the least of which was Henry VII wanting to divorce his current wife.
If anything, the reformation was more a political movement after the posting of the 95 faults Luther claimed the RCC had, many of which were, as jar notes, resolved in the council of trent.
The areas they did not concede in said council were on the seven sacrements, purgatory, and the spiritual value of indulgences. it also reasserted the authority of the papacy, bishops, and priests.

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This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 106 by Buzsaw, posted 12-17-2006 11:24 PM kuresu has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 100 of 157 (370537)
12-17-2006 10:33 PM
Reply to: Message 96 by Hyroglyphx
12-17-2006 8:53 PM


Re: Differences between Roman Catholic and Protestant Doctrine.
I also want to comment on another nonsense assertion you made.
I have noticed, possibly as a direct result of that antiquated belief, that many Catholics have a fascination with relics or anything tangible. They seem to have an emphasis on caricatures, statues, alters, prayer beads, and all around tangible objects.
For instance, the belief in the "Spear of Destiny" or the "Holy Grail" or the "Shroud of Turin" are all inferences deduced by the Catholic Church that getting a hold of these items might somehow bestow the possessors some mystical power. That is a complete defilement, in my opinion, of what a spiritual life is supposed to consist of.
Again, that has nothing to do with differences in doctrine or even between Protestants and Roman Catholics. The acquisition of relics was quite common with both Protestants and Roman Catholics. Using such things as symbols has continued even today. What do you think the Cross is but such a symbol?
I would like to point out yet another area where at first it might seem there is a difference, but in reality where the Fundamentalists, Evangelical and Pentecostals are far closer to Roman Catholics than the majority of Protestants. That is the difference between the symbol of the Cross and the Crucifix.
In most Protestant Churches the Cross is always shown Empty, while in Roman Catholic Churches it is the image of Jesus hanging on the Cross.
At first, as I said, that might seem a difference.
BUT, when you look at what is preached you find an interesting factor. Roman Catholics, Evangelicals, Fundamentalists and Pentecostals concentrate more on Jesus Death.
Other Protestant Churches, Anglicans, Lutherans, Methodists, Presbyterians, Episcopalians and others concentrate more on Jesus Life, and His resurrection. The significance of the empty cross seems to be lost on Evangelicals, Pentecostals and Fundamentalists and in that way they are far more like the Roman Catholics than the other Protestant sects.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by Hyroglyphx, posted 12-17-2006 8:53 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 103 by Buzsaw, posted 12-17-2006 11:11 PM jar has replied
 Message 123 by Hyroglyphx, posted 12-18-2006 3:25 AM jar has replied

  
anastasia
Member (Idle past 5952 days)
Posts: 1857
From: Bucks County, PA
Joined: 11-05-2006


Message 101 of 157 (370538)
12-17-2006 10:47 PM
Reply to: Message 81 by Hyroglyphx
12-17-2006 4:50 PM


Re: Baptismal regeneration
nemesis writes:
The Scriptures are quite clear that we have to born again.
I really do not know where to start with this..excuse me...mess.
But this is as good a place as any, so; let's just change the names of what we are dealing with a little.
You believe that we are first born again. You believe baptism is public commitment to Christ and only happens once someone is born again.
Catholics believe that confirmation is public commitment to Christ and only happens once someone is baptized.
Let's say born again = baptism.
Dedicated = confirmed.
Now, you believe that we must be born again in order to be saved. Catholics believe you must be baptized in order to be saved.
Very easy to understand that way, no?
If a person must be born again in order to be saved, then what happens to the young baby who never was born again? What is the minimum age when someone can claim to be born again? Is it 5? at the age of reason? Obviously you think 12 is too young since you think 12 year olds are too young to be confirmed. So, you must think we need to be at least 13 to be born again...but, we reach the age of reason at around 5 you say, and in between 5-13, we are certainly able to sin. So, what then would become of the sinful pre-adolescent who waa not born again yet and died in a sudden accident?
You see, the position must be logical through and through. You can't leave salvation open to only those over the 'right age' to be committed to God, or only those who suddenly were 'born again' in mid-life.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 81 by Hyroglyphx, posted 12-17-2006 4:50 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 104 by Buzsaw, posted 12-17-2006 11:17 PM anastasia has replied
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Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 102 of 157 (370540)
12-17-2006 10:58 PM
Reply to: Message 67 by Omnivorous
12-16-2006 10:55 PM


Mary's Humanity
I appreciate your kind comments regarding my mother. It sounds like I can say the same for your good mom.
Omni writes:
It still sounds odd to hear a man say that there was nothing special about Mary beyond any other God-fearing woman, as though she might have just been the millionth customer in the door that day and won the Big Prize.
Never have I said that there was nothing special about the virgin mother. I said that she was not different than other women in nature of her physical and mental properties and that includes her own birth. Jar ask someone if the they would agree that Mary was different than other women and I made a response.
omni writes:
We generally see large roles in spiritual stories played by people who worked to get closer to God--you make it sound as though He took her where He found her; perhaps she strove harder to get close to God than any other woman. I have to wonder why you would want to rule that possibility out.
No doubt she was closer to God than many women, but likely no closer than women like Hannah, Esther, Sarah and even Mary Magdaline who anointed Jesus with the expensive ointment that Judas complained about. Mary, the mother of Jesus was likely very reveered by him as a good mother, but he nevertheless made it a point to let the record show that so far as her mother status, it was he, the child that was different than other children, in that her mother role ended with his maturity and the beginning of his ministry.
Omni writes:
Even granting that Jesus was the Son of God and not God, one would think there must be something about the woman that God actually picks for that role that made her stand out. So I find myself wondering why a Christian would insist so strongly that there was absolutely nothing special about Mary. How would you know?
Where ever did you get that my position is that there was absolutely nothing special about Mary, Omni?
Omni writes:
It also sounds like there is as much difference in belief between various Protestant congregations and individuals as there is between Catholics and Protestants, regarding both Mary and Christ.
You're reading stuff into my statements that is just not there. This is not like you. I'm surprised. Did you and Jar get into some bad coolaid while you were out?

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28

This message is a reply to:
 Message 67 by Omnivorous, posted 12-16-2006 10:55 PM Omnivorous has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 103 of 157 (370541)
12-17-2006 11:11 PM
Reply to: Message 100 by jar
12-17-2006 10:33 PM


Re: Differences between Roman Catholic and Protestant Doctrine.
Jar writes:
The significance of the empty cross seems to be lost on Evangelicals, Pentecostals and Fundamentalists and in that way they are far more like the Roman Catholics than the other Protestant sects.
Jar, I have attended dozens of these churches regularly over the years whereas you have not. Without exception, the significance of the empty cross is very important to these groups. We all emphasise the resurrection in that empty cross symbol we wear and install on many of our churches, signifying that he is no longer on the cross or even dead in the grave, but alive and resurrected.
I don't mean to imply that Catholics do not believe in the resurrection. I am not aware of anyone in these groups who have, wear or otherwise use crosses with a corpse on them.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28

This message is a reply to:
 Message 100 by jar, posted 12-17-2006 10:33 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 105 by jar, posted 12-17-2006 11:19 PM Buzsaw has replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 104 of 157 (370542)
12-17-2006 11:17 PM
Reply to: Message 101 by anastasia
12-17-2006 10:47 PM


Re: Baptismal regeneration
If this is the case, it is a very significant difference in Catholicism and other groups such as the thousands of fundamentalist evangelical churches church groups/denominations regarding baptism.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28

This message is a reply to:
 Message 101 by anastasia, posted 12-17-2006 10:47 PM anastasia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 107 by jar, posted 12-17-2006 11:25 PM Buzsaw has replied
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jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 105 of 157 (370543)
12-17-2006 11:19 PM
Reply to: Message 103 by Buzsaw
12-17-2006 11:11 PM


Re: Differences between Roman Catholic and Protestant Doctrine.
LOL
Left a little out there Buz. I know well what is in the Churches and I also listen to you and others preach.
If you read all that I wrote you will find you are misrepresenting what I posted in Message 100.
I said:
I would like to point out yet another area where at first it might seem there is a difference, but in reality where the Fundamentalists, Evangelical and Pentecostals are far closer to Roman Catholics than the majority of Protestants. That is the difference between the symbol of the Cross and the Crucifix.
In most Protestant Churches the Cross is always shown Empty, while in Roman Catholic Churches it is the image of Jesus hanging on the Cross.
At first, as I said, that might seem a difference.
BUT, when you look at what is preached you find an interesting factor. Roman Catholics, Evangelicals, Fundamentalists and Pentecostals concentrate more on Jesus Death.
Other Protestant Churches, Anglicans, Lutherans, Methodists, Presbyterians, Episcopalians and others concentrate more on Jesus Life, and His resurrection. The significance of the empty cross seems to be lost on Evangelicals, Pentecostals and Fundamentalists and in that way they are far more like the Roman Catholics than the other Protestant sects.
"BUT, when you look at what is preached you find an interesting factor. Roman Catholics, Evangelicals, Fundamentalists and Pentecostals concentrate more on Jesus Death."
I did not say that you folk deny the importance of the resurrrection, but only that like the Roman Catholics what you PREACH is more oriented to Jesus death than his life.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 103 by Buzsaw, posted 12-17-2006 11:11 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 108 by Buzsaw, posted 12-17-2006 11:40 PM jar has replied

  
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