Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
3 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,817 Year: 3,074/9,624 Month: 919/1,588 Week: 102/223 Day: 13/17 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Are Catholics and Protestants that different?
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 106 of 157 (370546)
12-17-2006 11:24 PM
Reply to: Message 99 by kuresu
12-17-2006 10:31 PM


Re: Effect of the Reformation
The Protestant Reformation is what created the wide gap between the protesting ones and the RCC. Folks ammassed into the protestant movement to effect the consumation of Vatican City's oppressive domination of religious and political power.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28

This message is a reply to:
 Message 99 by kuresu, posted 12-17-2006 10:31 PM kuresu has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 109 by kuresu, posted 12-17-2006 11:44 PM Buzsaw has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 107 of 157 (370547)
12-17-2006 11:25 PM
Reply to: Message 104 by Buzsaw
12-17-2006 11:17 PM


Re: Baptismal regeneration
If this is the case, it is a very significant difference in Catholicism and other groups such as the thousands of fundamentalist evangelical churches church groups/denominations regarding baptism.
Certainly Buz. But that is not a Protestant vs Roman Catholic issue. Most Protestant Churches hold the same views and Sacraments regarding Baptism as the Roman Catholics.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 104 by Buzsaw, posted 12-17-2006 11:17 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 112 by Buzsaw, posted 12-18-2006 12:01 AM jar has replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 108 of 157 (370551)
12-17-2006 11:40 PM
Reply to: Message 105 by jar
12-17-2006 11:19 PM


Re: Differences between Roman Catholic and Protestant Doctrine.
Jar writes:
The significance of the empty cross seems to be lost on Evangelicals, Pentecostals and Fundamentalists and in that way they are far more like the Roman Catholics than the other Protestant sects.
You falsely accuse me of misrepresenting what you said. Did you or did you not say the above which is the false segment of your message I was addressing? Of course, you know you did. This statement in your message is just not true. I know for a fact that the empty cross symbol is a very significant doctrinal statement to these groups which I've been in regularly for over 60 years.
You have provided no support to the bogus claim you insist on propagating.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28

This message is a reply to:
 Message 105 by jar, posted 12-17-2006 11:19 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 111 by jar, posted 12-17-2006 11:53 PM Buzsaw has replied

  
kuresu
Member (Idle past 2513 days)
Posts: 2544
From: boulder, colorado
Joined: 03-24-2006


Message 109 of 157 (370553)
12-17-2006 11:44 PM
Reply to: Message 106 by Buzsaw
12-17-2006 11:24 PM


Re: Effect of the Reformation
care to clarify with what you mean by your statement?
If you mean to say that the protestant reformation was a popular movement (as in, carried out by the population), you are quite mistaken.
It is largely a political movement, carried out by the princes and monarchs of early modern europe.

Want to help give back to the world community? Did you know that your computer can help? Join the newest TeamEvC Climate Modelling to help improve climate predictions for a better tomorrow.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by Buzsaw, posted 12-17-2006 11:24 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 114 by Buzsaw, posted 12-18-2006 12:07 AM kuresu has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 110 of 157 (370555)
12-17-2006 11:50 PM
Reply to: Message 94 by Hyroglyphx
12-17-2006 7:44 PM


Re: Baptismal regeneration
nemesis_juggernaut writes:
... to commit to something, one has to first possess the understanding of a commitment.
Congratulations on missing the point completely, even though you (oddly) agreed with it: When an infant is baptized, he/she is not committing to anything. Therefore, age is irrelevant. The commitment is in the other direction - from the Church to the child. (Hint: ever hear of godparents?)
Later on, when the person does possess enough understanding to reciprocate the commitment, the ritual is completed by confirmation.
It makes no difference how old the prospective club members are. It makes no difference if they are sprinkled or hosed down. It makes no difference what breed the dog is or what colour the pony is. It's the same show.
There is a reason why a bath is private and a baptism is public - the same reason that a wedding is public and a marriage is private. You need to learn to distinguish between a commitment and the public celebration of that commitment.

Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC

This message is a reply to:
 Message 94 by Hyroglyphx, posted 12-17-2006 7:44 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 139 by Hyroglyphx, posted 12-18-2006 8:06 PM ringo has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 111 of 157 (370556)
12-17-2006 11:53 PM
Reply to: Message 108 by Buzsaw
12-17-2006 11:40 PM


Re: Differences between Roman Catholic and Protestant Doctrine.
Come on Buz. As anyone can see if they look at Message 100 you took one paragraph out of context. That is why I always try to include all of the material and not just quotemine.
That paragraph was only part. I have also listened to you and MANY Evangelical Preachers and one thing always stands out is their concentration on Christ's Death as sacrifice. I simply noted that in that you are closer to the Roman Catholic Church than you are to some Protestant Churches.
I did NOT falsely accuse you of anything. I just said that you took one paragraph out of context.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 108 by Buzsaw, posted 12-17-2006 11:40 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 117 by Buzsaw, posted 12-18-2006 12:13 AM jar has replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 112 of 157 (370557)
12-18-2006 12:01 AM
Reply to: Message 107 by jar
12-17-2006 11:25 PM


Re: Baptismal regeneration
Jar writes:
Most Protestant Churches hold the same views and Sacraments regarding Baptism as the Roman Catholics.
Evangelicals are a very large segment of Christianity, likely the majority, but not sure about that. They do not hold the same views and sacraments regarding Baptism. Most of these do not sprinkle or baptize babies. "Protestant" is a relative word so far as doctrine goes. The two major divisions are liberals/conservatives or evangelical/nonevangelical. Most evangelicals are also fundamentalist. These are the ones who differ the most with RCC on Baptism and they are a very significant percentage of Christians.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28

This message is a reply to:
 Message 107 by jar, posted 12-17-2006 11:25 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 115 by jar, posted 12-18-2006 12:08 AM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 129 by nator, posted 12-18-2006 10:22 AM Buzsaw has not replied

  
truthlover
Member (Idle past 4059 days)
Posts: 1548
From: Selmer, TN
Joined: 02-12-2003


Message 113 of 157 (370560)
12-18-2006 12:05 AM
Reply to: Message 95 by jar
12-17-2006 8:06 PM


Re: Differences between Roman Catholic and Protestant Doctrine.
I'm not sure, jar, that I'd agree that Episcopalians, Anglicans, Lutherans and other liturgical Protestants constitute "the vast majority" of Protestants. There are 40 million Baptists in the United States, and I think there's 6 to 10 million Assembly of God, besides Presbyterian churches that may be liturgical but have extreme doctrinal differences with the Roman Catholics on some pretty major issues.
Also, I think Evangelical is the wrong word, because in a lot of literature I've read, "evangelical" includes many liturgical churches as well as fundamentalists.
Obviously, there's not much difference in theology between the Anglicans and Episcopalians and the RCC, because the Anglicans only separated from the RCC over papal authority. The Lutherans, however, while being very liturgical and sacramental, but Luther's doctrines of predestination and salvation by faith definitely don't jive with the Roman Catholics.
Either way, I think it's safe to say that the Baptists, Pentecostals, and other fundamentalists have numbers at least equal to more liturgical Protestants.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 95 by jar, posted 12-17-2006 8:06 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 119 by jar, posted 12-18-2006 12:22 AM truthlover has replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 114 of 157 (370561)
12-18-2006 12:07 AM
Reply to: Message 109 by kuresu
12-17-2006 11:44 PM


Re: Effect of the Reformation
I mean it began as most movements do, small and grew rapidly into a popular movement as the people came out of RCC and formed their own denominations, groups and sects. That's what's in the history so far as I'm aware. If you can document otherwise, I'm willing to concede. So far I don't see where you've substantiated your claim.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28

This message is a reply to:
 Message 109 by kuresu, posted 12-17-2006 11:44 PM kuresu has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 116 by kuresu, posted 12-18-2006 12:10 AM Buzsaw has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 115 of 157 (370562)
12-18-2006 12:08 AM
Reply to: Message 112 by Buzsaw
12-18-2006 12:01 AM


Re: Baptismal regeneration
Evangelicals are a very large segment of Christianity, likely the majority, but not sure about that. They do not hold the same views and sacraments regarding Baptism. Most of these do not sprinkle or baptize babies. "Protestant" is a relative word so far as doctrine goes. The two major divisions are liberals/conservatives or evangelical/nonevangelical. Most evangelicals are also fundamentalist. These are the ones who differ the most with RCC on Baptism and they are a very significant percentage of Christians
No problem Buz. I agree, but that is not then a Doctrine difference between Protestants and the Roman Catholics, it is a difference between Evangelicals and the rest of Christianity, Protestant and Roman Catholic.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 112 by Buzsaw, posted 12-18-2006 12:01 AM Buzsaw has not replied

  
kuresu
Member (Idle past 2513 days)
Posts: 2544
From: boulder, colorado
Joined: 03-24-2006


Message 116 of 157 (370564)
12-18-2006 12:10 AM
Reply to: Message 114 by Buzsaw
12-18-2006 12:07 AM


Re: Effect of the Reformation
kuresu writes:
The P. reformation was backed by german princes who basically wanted to be free of papal dominion. With the refusal of papal authority made explicit in the reformation, it gave them a way out. the reformation was backed in England for similar reasons, not the least of which was Henry VII wanting to divorce his current wife.
If anything, the reformation was more a political movement after the posting of the 95 faults Luther claimed the RCC had
buz writes:
So far I don't see where you've substantiated your claim.
if you want more, I'll have to start a new thread.

Want to help give back to the world community? Did you know that your computer can help? Join the newest TeamEvC Climate Modelling to help improve climate predictions for a better tomorrow.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 114 by Buzsaw, posted 12-18-2006 12:07 AM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 118 by Buzsaw, posted 12-18-2006 12:16 AM kuresu has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 117 of 157 (370565)
12-18-2006 12:13 AM
Reply to: Message 111 by jar
12-17-2006 11:53 PM


Re: Differences between Roman Catholic and Protestant Doctrine.
Jar writes:
I did NOT falsely accuse you of anything. I just said that you took one paragraph out of context.
How specifically does the context change or nullify the statement to which I was responding? I chose to respond only to the statement in your context which I saw the greatest problem with as not being true.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28

This message is a reply to:
 Message 111 by jar, posted 12-17-2006 11:53 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 120 by jar, posted 12-18-2006 12:24 AM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 118 of 157 (370569)
12-18-2006 12:16 AM
Reply to: Message 116 by kuresu
12-18-2006 12:10 AM


Re: Effect of the Reformation
A link or two would suffice I would think for the present. I'm not sure I want to commit myself to a lot of time on a Reformation thread, but it might be a popular and interesting topic.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28

This message is a reply to:
 Message 116 by kuresu, posted 12-18-2006 12:10 AM kuresu has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 119 of 157 (370570)
12-18-2006 12:22 AM
Reply to: Message 113 by truthlover
12-18-2006 12:05 AM


Re: Differences between Roman Catholic and Protestant Doctrine.
I'm not sure, jar, that I'd agree that Episcopalians, Anglicans, Lutherans and other liturgical Protestants constitute "the vast majority" of Protestants. There are 40 million Baptists in the United States, and I think there's 6 to 10 million Assembly of God, besides Presbyterian churches that may be liturgical but have extreme doctrinal differences with the Roman Catholics on some pretty major issues.
But the topic was about differences between Protestant Doctrine and Roman Catholic Doctrine and not restricted to the US IIRC.
My point is that in many areas some Protestants are closer to Roman Catholics than they are to other Protestant sects. I am NOT saying one is right or another is wrong.
Obviously, there's not much difference in theology between the Anglicans and Episcopalians and the RCC, because the Anglicans only separated from the RCC over papal authority. The Lutherans, however, while being very liturgical and sacramental, but Luther's doctrines of predestination and salvation by faith definitely don't jive with the Roman Catholics.
The Lutherans and Episcopalians are pretty much merged now. As a mater of fact our new minister at my Episcopal Church was ordained as a Lutheran.
But again, it is not a difference between Protestant and Roman catholic but rather one between Lutherans and Roman Catholics and there are many differences between Liturgical Churches and other Protestant Churches.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 113 by truthlover, posted 12-18-2006 12:05 AM truthlover has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 125 by truthlover, posted 12-18-2006 6:16 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 120 of 157 (370571)
12-18-2006 12:24 AM
Reply to: Message 117 by Buzsaw
12-18-2006 12:13 AM


Re: Differences between Roman Catholic and Protestant Doctrine.
Buz, folk can read what I posted in full in Message 100 and all the other message I have posted in this thread. The record is there. Let them read and form their own opinions.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 117 by Buzsaw, posted 12-18-2006 12:13 AM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024