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Understanding through Discussion


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Author Topic:   Omniscience, Omnipotence, the Fall & Logical Contradictions.
Heathen
Member (Idle past 1309 days)
Posts: 1067
From: Brizzle
Joined: 09-20-2005


Message 27 of 354 (354427)
10-05-2006 12:27 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by iano
10-05-2006 10:06 AM


iano writes:
We are constrained by our logic in other words. But God is not.
And there it is folks.. the magic get out clause that signifies the end of rational debate...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by iano, posted 10-05-2006 10:06 AM iano has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by iano, posted 10-05-2006 1:17 PM Heathen has replied

  
Heathen
Member (Idle past 1309 days)
Posts: 1067
From: Brizzle
Joined: 09-20-2005


Message 34 of 354 (354488)
10-05-2006 3:54 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by iano
10-05-2006 1:17 PM


iano writes:
You mean demanding God to conform to the image and likeness of your logical limits
No, I mean resotrting to the "well we could'nt possibly understand' argument, while continuing to talk as if you completely understand.
iano writes:
Why are you always so eager to self-proclaim victory when you sail in the same boat that I do?
Victory? where did I mention anyone's victory? I just pointed out that as long as you have the "well we couldn't possibly understand' line of argument available for (mis)use, the debate is totally pointless.. totally fruitless.. a waste of time. Because no matter what rationale, no matter what reasoning, no matter what evidence... you will remain willfully ignorant and handwave away any troublesome thoughts.
iano writes:
Better discuss than debate these things
I guess relatively speaking I haven't been here too long, but I am coming round to the futility of the discussion here, as long as responses like the one I quoted remain the mainstay
Edited by Creavolution, : spelling

This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by iano, posted 10-05-2006 1:17 PM iano has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by iano, posted 10-06-2006 6:06 AM Heathen has replied

  
Heathen
Member (Idle past 1309 days)
Posts: 1067
From: Brizzle
Joined: 09-20-2005


Message 51 of 354 (354852)
10-06-2006 4:50 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by iano
10-06-2006 6:06 AM


iano writes:
That isn't my approach. Someone says "Gods omniscience means no free will". But they cannot escape the fact that such comments rely, at their root, on the presumption that God is limited to operating within the confines of our logic. By definition this cannot be the case. We are made like God. We are not God ourselves. So absolutes such as those statements are out.
Arguing based upon 'what might be' is unproductive and does not contribute in any way... we get into the realms of fantasy here, FSM, IPU, all that stuff enters the debating room as soon as you say "we cannot understand".
iano writes:
In suggesting the age old idea of timeless existance for God I give a possible (not proven) way whereby he could know all choices that will ever be made before they are made (by observation) without determining that they be so.
But when you reply with the "god's logic is not ours" you are merely throwing the argument open to any and every wild fantasy or imaginative hallucination, worth nothing other than 'It might be' as back up. not necessarily wrong untill proven so, but uncontructive and distractionary (is that a word?).
iano writes:
Its an apologetic - not a proof. Apologetics is the business of preventing doors shutting/opening doors. I might not do it well but that is what I attempt. So we may conclude...
To the reader (well... me anyway) you seem to use these apologetics as if they were truths/proofs. It comes across as being somewhat dishonest and devicive.
iano writes:
I might well be the dumbest sighted man in the world.
you may well be blind.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by iano, posted 10-06-2006 6:06 AM iano has not replied

  
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