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Author Topic:   Let us reason together.
Andya Primanda
Inactive Member

Message 3 of 152 (30282)
01-27-2003 3:45 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by drummachine
01-27-2003 1:59 AM

As I see it, Drum's post depicts the only reason why creationism only appears in Christianity. Their whole religious wager hangs on the chain of Adam's Fall--Christ on the Cross--Redemption. Archaeology and science renders the first link questionable. Those with the threatened investment would go to absurd lengths to ensure that they somehow might still gain profit in their so-called Kingdom of God.
How can a God of love [btw my theology emphasizes a God of justice--TB is right when he calls Him a legalistic God] allow evil? Well, evil itself was IMHO a creation of man. Nature knows no evil, nor any value judgements; all of these were invented by man. There is no such thing as an original sin; Adam and his wife were forgiven after they were banished to Earth.
Your Bible talks about creation 6000 years ago; or is it? Wasn't it Archbishop Ussher who pinpointed the date of creation? Are you holding a fallible man's words as infallible? I thought your absolute is God, not Ussher.
Why would anyone die for our sins? I also believe in a judgement in the future where I will be held accountable for everything I have done; why does one even bother about a final judgement if s/he's no longer responsible for her/his actions? Why bother doing good works/avoiding sin if somebody had agreed to take the punishment for you?
And yes, if I happen to see a monkey today, I don't consider it my ancestor [it is probably younger than me, anyway]. I consider it a distant relative. Same goes to the termites I study. Our common ancestors are long dead, but not until they leave descendants.

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Andya Primanda
Inactive Member

Message 8 of 152 (30655)
01-30-2003 3:51 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by drummachine
01-30-2003 1:52 AM

When I look at a monkey I dont see Grandpa. Evolution to me is not science. It truly means, man is God.
My head spins. Wasn't it you Christians who said that a man is God? No evolutionist I encounter ever explicitly say that man is God. On the contrary, many Christians I encounter said that God became man. Oh. All this Imago Dei theology is evolution? Give me some headache pills.
We have never seen dog change into non-dog and we will never see that my friends. I would ask someone who believes in evolution for a simple proof.
A non-dog change into many breeds of dogs, which if shown to a naturalist and labeled 'wild animals' he would definitely assign them to different species ('Canis dobermanni...Canis chihuahuanensis...[i]Canis sancta-bernardi[/]...'). The non-dog is a wolf. That simple enough?
Any reference to created kinds and I'll have to force you to define its boundaries.
Proof of a global flood? For starter's there are marine fossils on mountains like Mt. Everest. No man was there in the past. No one can accurately age date the earth.
I leave these to the geologists.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Andya Primanda
Inactive Member

Message 36 of 152 (31766)
02-08-2003 10:18 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by drummachine
02-08-2003 10:05 PM

Then correct me if I'm wrong, but is Christianity the only religion that's having a problem with evolution? Sure there are Muslim creationists, but they imported their material from Christian fundamnetalists. As I know it, only Christians have a problem with evolution...
...wait, what about the Raelians?

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Andya Primanda
Inactive Member

Message 68 of 152 (33007)
02-24-2003 2:44 AM
Reply to: Message 67 by drummachine
02-23-2003 9:24 PM

God saith...
Seriously, is this what evolution is? Man evolved from other species? Man is man and ape is ape just like God said.
How did He say that to you? God told me indirectly that man is an ape, too closely related with the other apes. God spoke through fossils He preserved in Africa, through the DNA and proteins of living apes, through evidence He has given for us to see.
And yes, drumlover/salesman, man evolved from another species. Go ask God if He had meant otherwise, as His child you seem to have personal channels inaccessible to us evilutionists. Ask him why He created australopiths which lived 2 million years ago. Ask him why He fashioned our DNA so similar to chimp DNA down to the details and mistakes. Ask him why he had created man as a cheap copy of the other apes.
Oh, and stop preaching. I am not a Christian and Christian preachers IMO are the most annoying. Why not try preaching Buddhism or Islam?

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Andya Primanda
Inactive Member

Message 81 of 152 (33367)
02-27-2003 10:15 AM
Reply to: Message 73 by drummachine
02-25-2003 9:57 PM

checking the salesman's claims
Psalm 104:5 He set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved.
The earth revolves around the sun. Does it not move?
They only need two dogs. Not every different kind. We see all different kinds of dogs with longer or shorter noses, colors, shapes, etc. Just as man or any other animal. Are they still dogs? Yes.
...they only need two apes. Not every different kind such as chimps, gorillas, orangutans, australopiths, Homo erectus, Neanderthals, and humans. We see all different kinds of apes with taller or shorter bodies, denser/sparser hair, bigger/smaller brains. Are they still apes?

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Andya Primanda
Inactive Member

Message 104 of 152 (34606)
03-18-2003 3:17 AM
Reply to: Message 100 by drummachine
03-17-2003 9:28 PM

6)Man has always been advanced. 5,000 years ago were the Egyptians learning how to grunt when they made the hyrogliphics or the pyramids?
20000 years ago there were no Egyptians, just hunter-gatherers all over Earth. That's not 'advanced'.
2 million years ago there were no men. There were ape-men.
7)We see kinds. We see many different kinds of dogs. Are they still dogs?
We see many different kinds of apes, eg. gibbons, orangutans, gorillas, chimps, australopiths, humans. Are they still apes? I say: Yes.
Come to think of it, regardless of the reproductive barrier criterion, is the variation among dog breeds larger than variation among extant apes? Are gibbons and gorillas more similar than, say, poodles and st. Bernards? What about humans vs chimps and dobermans vs German shepherds?

This message is a reply to:
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