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Author Topic:   Let us reason together.
David unfamous
Inactive Member


Message 10 of 152 (30661)
01-30-2003 4:59 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by Quetzal
01-30-2003 4:46 AM


Anyone know of a "natural" cross between a chihuaha and a great dane
Now there's a thought

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Quetzal, posted 01-30-2003 4:46 AM Quetzal has not replied

David unfamous
Inactive Member


Message 11 of 152 (30664)
01-30-2003 5:29 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by drummachine
01-30-2003 1:52 AM


Drummachine (808, 909?)
With all respect, you sound exactly like every single newborn Christian I have met or listened to. You say exactly the same lines. You repeat the same passages. You exhibit no personality or individualism. You sound like a drone reciting lines that were once drilled into your head by the newborn who converted you.
You are the reason that so many people are put off religion, just like the stereotypical image of the mad Frankenstein scientist in his stone-wall laboratory puts people off science.
You were once a drug addict who wanted to kill his father, your life was a mess (newborn's always seem to be ex-convicts/druggies/murderers) and now everything's peachy. Great. But don't go around making out that everyone else's lives are empty and shameful just because of your crappy past. It's damn offensive.
Remember, you're the one who used to be a drug addict with social problems, not us. So don't make out you're better than us.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by drummachine, posted 01-30-2003 1:52 AM drummachine has not replied

David unfamous
Inactive Member


Message 18 of 152 (30807)
01-31-2003 5:09 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by drummachine
01-31-2003 12:05 AM


How did I say I was better than anyone?
If you are no better than I, then why need I change? If you don't believe you have something that I lack, then why preach what I am missing?
No one is righteous.
But many think they are.
Christ died for my sins, not because I'm a good person.
I don't believe in Genesis, Adam and Eve, and have many doubts as to the existence of Christ. These words are void of any meaning or relevance to me.
Let the Master touch your life and He will show He is creator.
No one is my master. I am no slave.
This material world is a circus of deception that is passing away.
Who or what is deceiving us?
People think Christians are brain-dead and dont think for themselves.
I said newborns are drones. I live and work with Christians who don't feel the necessity to preach, and who respect my beliefs.
I'm not just reciting some empty words.
Really? ...
I have chosen to walk with the creator for eternity and that by His grace, because I sin every day. Thats why I need His grace. There is nothing I could ever bring before the living God because we breath because He has given life and breath.
... Then what do you call that if not empty preachy babble?
What is wisdom? Everything came together by time and chance or the infinite creator God created everything good and with purpose.
All the knowledge I have suggests the former. If I didn't understand basic physics, geology, biology, cosmology or psychology (none of which I claim to be a supreme expert at), I would most likely go for the fairytale belief that you have.
IS THIS WHAT EVOLUTION TRULY IS?
There is no absolute. There are no laws because there is no creator. Everything was thrown together by time and chance. A faith of non-evidence. So-called science that changes theories all the time.

I think it's time you actually started to learn about evolution, as you apparently have no idea whatsoever.
If you have so much confidence in your faith, venture away from it for a while to learn that of which you have little understanding. I'm sure your God won't let you be 'poisoned' by a little knowledge of science, and will stand by your side as you learn about the true world you live in (deception or not).

This message is a reply to:
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David unfamous
Inactive Member


Message 48 of 152 (32416)
02-17-2003 7:00 AM
Reply to: Message 46 by drummachine
02-15-2003 1:02 AM


Its like looking at a building. Was the building thrown together by an explosion in a brick factory only using time and chance, or was there a desginer who planned everything ahead of time?
This is a common argument, but flawed. The user takes a pre-concieved creation, and asks the possibility of it occuring through a pre-concieved act - car from hurricane in junkyard, house from explosion in brickyard etc. As we know how to design a house, and how to build one, we know such devastating acts do not produce our target design. The analogy is purposely misleading.
Yet if an explosion were to happen in a brick factory, you'd likley see a mess of bricks and human remains strewn about the vicinity. Now if you were to calculate what the probability of each brick/stone/particle/atom being in the exact state you find them in the aftermath, the odds would be overwhelmingly against it.
So, would you then conclude the aftermath of said explosion in a brick factory was intelligently designed due to near impossible odds?

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David unfamous
Inactive Member


Message 51 of 152 (32537)
02-18-2003 8:03 AM
Reply to: Message 49 by drummachine
02-17-2003 8:08 PM


So do you believe that animals change into other animals?
Do you believe your parents 'changed' into you? Using the word 'changed' is an overly simplistic term that shows your lack of understand of evolution.
Evolution is not science.
Geology is a science. Chemistry is a science. Biology is a science. Paleontology is a science. Those who work in these fields have independently contributed their knowledge and findings to science as a whole. These independent findings overwhelmingly point toward one theory: evolution. A theory that has had pieces of the jigsaw puzzle snuggly slotted in over the last 150 odd years.
You can call evolution what you like, but science put it there.
Its a belief.
It's a concusion.
So called scientific dates cannot work.
Explain what you mean.
Looking at a dinosaur bone or whatever it doesn't have a little tag on it saying, "Hi! I'm 10 million years old."
If it were that simple you could make it as a paleontologist, but it's not. That's why science exists, it's our continual quest for knowledge and understanding.
Look at the heavens. Then look at a human being. Look at a single cell in the body.
Without science, you certainly couldn't look at a cell. In fact you wouldn't know what a cell was or that it existed.
The living God clearly says in scripture, "The fool says in his heart there is no God." He says come to me, not us saying to God come to me.
Correction: In the Bible it reads that. I could just as easily write down 'The fool takes an extremely old book too literally.'
There is so much evidence of the creator that He says we are without excuse.
You're using circular reasoning:
1. I believe in God.
2. I believe The bible is the word of God.
3. The Bible says God created life.
4. Life exists.
5. Therefore Life is proof of God.
It truly has to do with our hearts.
What, the blood pumping muscle in our chests?
Choosing to believe that we evolved by chance is not correct.
Choosing to ignore all the evidence is not correct.
Its like saying, "Look at earth. It evolved by chance."
Earth itself isn't covered by the ToE. It's not biological.
Even though there can be only one truth we still believe what we want. I have.
What one truth is that then?
Its like saying, "I'm going to jump out of a window. I know the truth is I'll hit the ground, though I believe I will not."
Is that your truth? Don't do it!
If God is creator that means were accountable to Him. If not, there is no absolute. You can do what you want.
Rubbish. Law and order stop people doing what they want, not religion.
We love sin because we all have sinned. The flesh. If Jesus Christ is the way, truth and life He says we have to repent to receive the eternal blessing and...
Yawn. You're preaching again. Zzzzz...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by drummachine, posted 02-17-2003 8:08 PM drummachine has not replied

David unfamous
Inactive Member


Message 70 of 152 (33038)
02-24-2003 8:39 AM
Reply to: Message 67 by drummachine
02-23-2003 9:24 PM


You can't accept millions upon millions of years of gradual change, yet you do firmly believe man suddenly appeared from dirt, and woman from a rib. Interesting.
Here's a question drummy; If you lived 2000 years ago, had no knowledge of physics, palentology, geography, cosmology etc. and you were asked to make up a story that you and others could accept as the origin of life, what would you come up with?
Most probably you would use some powerful being and magic in your story. Yet in the year 2003 you still cling to such fantasy as if you were from such an age. Quite unbelievable.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 67 by drummachine, posted 02-23-2003 9:24 PM drummachine has not replied

David unfamous
Inactive Member


Message 75 of 152 (33218)
02-26-2003 4:57 AM
Reply to: Message 74 by Quetzal
02-26-2003 2:49 AM


I think you could easily build an ark to house alll the 'kinds' — Furry kinds, crawly kinds, flying kinds, big kinds and small kinds
Of course, explaining how the Koala got to Australia without leaving any evidence of it's journey on the way is another story...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 74 by Quetzal, posted 02-26-2003 2:49 AM Quetzal has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 76 by Quetzal, posted 02-26-2003 6:17 AM David unfamous has not replied

David unfamous
Inactive Member


Message 77 of 152 (33221)
02-26-2003 6:49 AM
Reply to: Message 73 by drummachine
02-25-2003 9:57 PM


quote:
If you want to insult me (drummy, etc.) thats fine.
No insult intended. You can call me Dave if you wish.
quote:
The great debate is if there is a creator or we evolved by time and chance. Truthfully what really makes sense?
The idea of a god makes absolutely no sense to me whatsoever, but the fact that it is an easy concept for many people to grasp who have insufficient understanding of science and logic does.
quote:
We see mutations yes but no animal has evolved into another.
This sounds like your very first post on EvC. Have you read nothing during your stay? Do we have to repeat everything over and over?
quote:
I believe there are mistakes, etc. because of sin
Which scientific mistakes are born of sin? The adultering palentologist misidentifies a Homo Erectus skull?
quote:
The world has been changed. If the bible is just a magical book are you not just closing your mind? The bible is a book of history.
I never said the Bible was a magical book, though it does contain magic/fantasy. It is my open mind that has revealed all the frauds of psychics, spoonbenders and all the others who claim to use supernatural powers as they dupe the general public that are brainwashed by popular entertainment and religion.
quote:
Many people take the bible out of context. When someone reads something in the bible it seems like they think that God is approving everything. If I am wrong please let me know.
From my covert visits to Christian web forums, it seems more like they think God dissaproves of everything (unless it's what they do and like of course)
quote:
Sure there are similarities in man and ape. But they are not the same. They never have been.
Very true, humans and apes are not the same, just like a Koala is not the same as a Grizzly. But follow the fossil records back, and you find fewer modern human bones and more bones 'similar' to humans. Then go back further and you find fewer of those similar bones, but more species simliar yet different in some way. All these fossils gradually build a picture, just like pieces in a jigsaw puzzle — you may not have all the pieces, but you can make out the final picture.
It seems you and other creationists won't accept the full picture until all the pieces are found.
quote:
There is more to life than are five senses. People believe that the bible is just some religious text book written by some sheep herders or whatever. Lets look at what is written.
Yes, there are more to life than five senses. No, I don't know whether the Bible was written by sheep herders. Was it?
quote:
Lets look at what is written.
Hebrews 11:2 By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God's command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible.
It's 11:3 not 2.
quote:
If God explained everything we would have a infinite amount of books. Is that a problem? Is it your world or His? Here is a couple more if interested. Rather than insulting eachtother, why don't we just be mature and just look at the evidence. The facts. Science is the study of things that are made. If we evolved by time and chance did a automobile? Of course not. Does a car have a purpose? Yes. But we just evolved by time and chance? Evolution means adding information. Do we see that? No. Everything is slowing down.
I have no need to insult you, but your continual ignorance of what has been recited to you over and over in an attempt to help you understand is itself an insult. Once again you put forward the same tired statements that others and myself on this forum have discussed with you at great lengths. Yet you repeat yourself as if they never happened.
I won't quote the rest of your post as it slides downhill into full-on preaching. You use circular reasoning to prove the existence of God. You propose easy-to-understand explanations for life are more valid than scientific answers because they are, well, easy to understand. But you fail to see all the evidence that proves, yes proves, that Genesis is pure bunk.
You have one single book written by humans containing 2000 year old knowledge that a modern 5 year old child could question. Just one ancient book and you think you know everything because you don't think science makes sense.
If the only single evidence for evolution was Origin of the Species, would anyone take it seriously? Of course not, and they didn't until time after time more evidence was put forward to support the theory. Evidence that the theory predicts.
I'm sorry Drummmachine, I'm sure you're a nice person, but I just know that whatever is put in front of your eyes will be ignored. You have been brought up to think a certain way and you may never break your mind away from fundamentalism. You are trapped by the fear of fire and brimstone, and won't take a leap of faith that could release you from a book created for no other reason than to trap those afraid of the unknown.
Great to be a Christian? No. Definately not.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 73 by drummachine, posted 02-25-2003 9:57 PM drummachine has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 78 by Admin, posted 02-26-2003 9:06 AM David unfamous has replied

David unfamous
Inactive Member


Message 80 of 152 (33355)
02-27-2003 8:35 AM
Reply to: Message 78 by Admin
02-26-2003 9:06 AM


Point taken admin. Name shortening does have contextual implications.
I would, however, like to retract my last comment ("Great to be a Christian? No. Definately not.") as I feel it was unnecessary. Yes, I was on a rant. Sorry Drummachine.

This message is a reply to:
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