This star can't. This star was very special. It led a selected few to a house, it had angels singing glory to God near it, it was over the son of the Almighty. It was here, apparently for only a few years, and seems to possibly have disappeared for awhile, because the wise men were awfully glad to find it again.
ok, let's start with what the story says.
quote:
Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem, Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.
Matthew 2:1-2
they knew from the star that a king had been born to the jews. how would a spaceship tell them that? now, an
astrological event would. put a star in alignment with jupiter and aries, and you have instant symbols for "king" and "jews" in the sky, that astrologers, like these magi, would recognize.
quote:
Then Herod, when he had privily called the wise men, enquired of them diligently what time the star appeared.
Matthew 2:7
herod wants to know when he can look at see the star for himself. otherwise, the time reference means nothing. and i know what you're going to say:
quote:
When they had heard the king, they departed; and, lo, the star, which they saw in the east, went before them, till it came and stood over where the young child was.
Matthew 2:9
stars don't move. actually, they do. or rather, the earth does. and one's position on the earth does. and they seem to know they're going to bayit-lechem anyways.
the magi came from a pretty fair distance. and stars aren't seen worldwide. our planet gets in the way.
How come there are no records of your claim, then??
er, on the contrary.
you have no records to support your claim. this bit about it disappearing for a few years? nothing in the bible. it was a sign that led the magi to christ. it wasn't there before, because its purpose was to announce the birth of christ. and the bit about the angels -- that's from luke, not matthew. one story is not the other story.
Human nature of the wicked heart of man. Cover ups. Not unique to a Jewish race, as we know. Even making money is done by others. And it would have been a Jewish leaders conspiracy that had Jesus arrested, that tried to get false witnesses, and some things that the bible talks about. They conspired. That is no secret.
Mt 12:14 - But the Pharisees went out and conspired against Him, as to how they might destroy Him.
I kid you not.
anti-semitism is still anti-semitism. even if you hate everybody else too.
The bible is God's records. What records in the bible do you think there are about the ark disappearing?
...none, actually. that's kind of the point. it disappears. it's in solomon's temple before the exile, but it's not carried off into exile -- there's no record of it being carried off into exile. if something happened to it, it happened in 586 BC. not 30 AD.
the records that exist support that. they don't support it sticking around, unmentioned and un-stolen-by-the-babylonians and smuggled back into the second temple (which also has no record of it existing), to suddenly and coincidentally disappear at some other point. that's like arguing "i know nobody has seen jimmy hoffa for 30 years, but he really only went missing when bill clinton was elected."
right. and then you claim
conspiracy as an ad-hoc justification for your nonsense.
On the contrary, the things they did were all that. The fact that we should not trust their records of Jesus is evident.
er, no. this is where your racism and bigotry shows through. the parushim were
one group of jews. and
not the ones that wrote or were in charge of the records 600 years earlier regarding the ark of the covenant. even assuming that all the pharisees were evil -- that's not "any jew i care to point a finger at." jesus was a jew. matthew, mark, luke, and john were all jews. the apostle paul was a jew. peter was a jew. joseph of aramithea was a jew. moses was a jew. aaron was a jew. king david and king solomon were jews. samuel was a jew. isaiah and jeremiah, jews. ezekiel -- jew. see a pattern here?
you cannot on the one hand claim to value the bible as god's inerrant word, and one the other claim that the evil jewish conspiracy has mucked around in it to hide the details that would support your nonsense. you cannot have it both ways. your hypocricy is laughable, but your bigotry is disgusting.
Missing from earth.
Rev 11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament:
This is where it is in the vision of John thousands of years ago.
...revelation was only written about 2000 years ago. and it's a vision of the
future for the most part. including chapter 11.
We don't know. All I can say, is that, if there was one, it was a replica.
we can't say anything, not even that. frankly i doubt
anyone has it at the moment, and i will not randomly accept claims of "i have it but you can't see it" from anyone. not the ethiopians, not the scottish knights templar, and not your "secretly smuggled out replica" nonsense. what reason do you have to believe ANY of that stuff?
Ah, back close to topic, that's nice.
" "Our Lord's triumphant entry into Jerusalem, before his crucifixion, 'riding on an ass, even a colt the foal of an ass,' which by his direction his disciples brought to him for this purpose, 'Go into the village over against you, and presently ye shall find an ass tied, and a colt with her; loose them, and bring them to me,' Matthew 21:2-5, remarkably fulfilling the prophecy of Zechariah, 9:9) is no less a fulfillment of this prophecy of Shiloh, 'binding or tying his foal to the vine, even his ass's colt to the choice vine.' In ancient times to ride upon white asses or ass-colts was the privilege of persons of high rank, princes, judges, and prophets"
err, that not exactly right. which is exactly the point. zechariah 9
is about the messiah. perhaps you'd better read the verse directly AFTER the oft-quoted one:
quote:
And I will cut off the chariot from Ephraim, and the horse from Jerusalem, and the battle bow shall be cut off, and he shall speak peace unto the nations; and his dominion shall be from sea to sea, and from the River to the ends of the earth.
Zechariah 9:10
god will destroy all impliments of war, and the messiah will bring peace to the entire world, and rule over everyone. now, since there's still war going on daily in israel, and the entire world isn't united in peaceful subordinance to jesus... he just doesn't fulfill that prophecy.
and yes, that's the prophecy. not the donkey bit. wanna take a guess at how many people have ridden into jerusalem's east gate on a donkey? i'll place my guess in the billions. how many people have brought peace to the entire planet? no one. the person who does will fulfill that prophecy. that's
why the term "shiloh" is thought to refer to the messiah -- the messiah brings peace, "shalom."
ii. At the time, the rabbis considered it a disaster of unfulfilled Scripture. Seemingly, the last vestige of the scepter had passed from Judah, and they did not see the Messiah. Rabbis walked the streets of Jerusalem and said, "Woe unto us, for the scepter has been taken away from Judah, and Shiloh has not come." But had God's word been broken? No way!
i'd like to remind you that the last king of judah, zedekiah, died in approximately 586 bc. not 0 ad. not 30 ad. 586 bc -- in babylonian captivity. at
that point the prophecy was broken. the idea of a messiah
did not exist until the jews needed a new king. the messiah, by definition, is the judean king who re-fulfills this prophecy (and the similar one given to david).
iii. Certainly, Jesus was alive then. Perhaps this was the very year He was 12 years old and discussing God's Word in the temple with the scholars of His day. Perhaps He was impressing them with His understanding of this very issue!"
alive when? that doesn't even make sense.
Heavens, they all seem to agree on this point. Powerful stuff.
maybe they're all UFOs. look, they agree because they're towing the dogmatic line. their analysis does not agree with the text. people can sit around and nod their heads all they like, but you have to check it against reality and not just yes-men.
we're not talking highly advanced symbolism here. "sceptre" relates to power. "throne" relates to power. it can be used to talk about god's power. or a king's power. it has nothing to do with spaceships.
God and His sapphire throne moot that point.
*sigh* you just don't get it, do you?
ezekiel's vision was
a vision. and not the only vision of god. it doesn't mean that everytime you see anything relating the word "throne" you can read it as "spaceship." david sat on the throne in jerusalem. did he have a UFO too?
Basically I take it to mean the authority and presence of the Father.
which is
not what it means. it means that judah will be royal. you can say that god gives that authority, maybe. but really his father israel does. and it says nothing about a spaceship. not even remotely.
Do you really think that the angels riding with the Almighty were not angels of the Lord?? The common theme is praise.
have you not heard the title "the angel of the lord" before? it's a very specific angel -- the one that speaks for god. he's a singular entity, and makes enough appearances and says enough godly things that you'll find a good number of fundamentalists who happen to think that "the angel of the lord" means "(precarnate) jesus." after all, he is the one that speaks for god, "the word" as it were. you will find much better support for that point than any of your nonsense.
Oh, and the heavenly host was there as well!!!
yes. host = alot. maybe even all the angels. not just four. it's
one very special angel, who is then joined by
lots of other angels. not four exactly equal angels with wheels under their feet.
Edited by arachnophilia, : typo
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