Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 64 (9164 total)
4 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,809 Year: 4,066/9,624 Month: 937/974 Week: 264/286 Day: 25/46 Hour: 0/2


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   What is Christianity?
Bob Bobber
Member (Idle past 2962 days)
Posts: 187
Joined: 12-30-2015


Message 299 of 451 (775317)
12-31-2015 2:55 AM
Reply to: Message 298 by ringo
12-30-2015 2:45 PM


Re: Its Not What You Do. Its Who He Is
If I am off topic sorry, BUT NOW, no longer does the human race have to strive to attain and maintain God’s acceptance on the basis of who they are and what they can do. Our decree of judicial perfection in the eyes of God comes not through Christ’s death for our sins, but through our union with Christ’s resurrection life. If a person believes Christ died for their sins, but does not believe that God’s justice was satisfied, when Christ died for those sins, that person has not believed Christ died for their sins. 

God purchased the human race out of sins dominion, never to be returned to the market place of sin again. By removing the sin issue from the table of God’s justice, God effectively canceled Satan’s ownership of all the human race. Satan can lay claim to no person based on that persons sinfulness. 

It was God’s plan before the creation of the world, that humankind’s fingerprints would not be found on humankind's salvation. Reconciliation has to do with God’s justice being satisfied for sins, and that means all of them and that means for all the world, reconciliation is a sin issue. Justification is something entirely different, it has to do with a judicial decree of the very righteousness of God himself freely attributed to the believer’s account.
To be justified does not mean to be perfectly righteous in performance. It also does not mean to become perfectly righteous or even more righteous in performance through time. It means having Christ’s perfect righteousness freely credited to the account of the ungodly who believe. 

Our justification was something accomplished for us by God’s grace. This gift decree of righteousness comes totally apart from any and all human promise, any or all human performance, or any or all human production. God will never consider our works as a payment for God’s justifying declaration. 

Justification is God’s gift! To say your works have anything at all to do with God’s gift declaration of righteousness is to slap the giver in the face. Remember, we were given our righteous standing as a free gift.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 298 by ringo, posted 12-30-2015 2:45 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 300 by Phat, posted 12-31-2015 6:54 AM Bob Bobber has replied
 Message 308 by ringo, posted 01-02-2016 10:52 AM Bob Bobber has not replied

  
Bob Bobber
Member (Idle past 2962 days)
Posts: 187
Joined: 12-30-2015


Message 301 of 451 (775337)
12-31-2015 11:29 AM
Reply to: Message 300 by Phat
12-31-2015 6:54 AM


Re: Its Not What You Do. Its Who He Is
Some have called God’s justification, cheap justification; if it is that easy, if a person can obtain righteousness without doing something, or even trying to do something in order to gain it, that would be too easy, and that would make it cheap.
That is difficult for people imbued with the pride of life to imagine; it is difficult to accept, because it does not seem fair to the human mind, especially to the religiously minded. It does not seem quite right that God could consider someone righteous, especially if that person is not expending the same amount of effort or attention that they are to become righteous by way of their practice.
The fact is Christ became the redeemer of the entire world, when he satisfied the justice of God for the sins of the entire world. The sin issue was resolved for everyone, but understand, that having a redeemer and accepting the redeemer that we have, and what that redeemer accomplished, are two different things.
God’s justification is absolutely free, but it was certainly not cheap, it came at tremendous cost. Apart from God’s grace, the justification Paul’s been telling us about would be totally impossible, but then, apart from the price the son of God paid to make it possible, God’s grace could not offer it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 300 by Phat, posted 12-31-2015 6:54 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 302 by Tangle, posted 12-31-2015 12:02 PM Bob Bobber has replied
 Message 317 by Phat, posted 01-15-2016 12:15 AM Bob Bobber has not replied

  
Bob Bobber
Member (Idle past 2962 days)
Posts: 187
Joined: 12-30-2015


Message 303 of 451 (775340)
12-31-2015 12:19 PM
Reply to: Message 302 by Tangle
12-31-2015 12:02 PM


Re: Its Not What You Do. Its Who He Is
But would you go and study Curt Crist? Curt knows Bob Bobber uses his reasonings. Those hearing this message of Paul, might believe this good news and become the instantaneous recipients of a new identity by being placed into Jesus Christ, the one who reconciled them to God?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 302 by Tangle, posted 12-31-2015 12:02 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 304 by Tangle, posted 12-31-2015 12:31 PM Bob Bobber has replied

  
Bob Bobber
Member (Idle past 2962 days)
Posts: 187
Joined: 12-30-2015


Message 305 of 451 (775343)
12-31-2015 12:55 PM
Reply to: Message 304 by Tangle
12-31-2015 12:31 PM


Re: Its Not What You Do. Its Who He Is
So what is everyones point of view on this reconciliation, sin not an issue anymore?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 304 by Tangle, posted 12-31-2015 12:31 PM Tangle has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 306 by Phat, posted 12-31-2015 1:19 PM Bob Bobber has replied

  
Bob Bobber
Member (Idle past 2962 days)
Posts: 187
Joined: 12-30-2015


Message 307 of 451 (775347)
12-31-2015 2:02 PM
Reply to: Message 306 by Phat
12-31-2015 1:19 PM


Re: Its Not What You Do. Its Who He Is
True, their is no condemnation because of our sanctified identity in the last Adam; God is the sanctifier. But reconciliation is a different truth then justification, because sin is not an issue with the human race?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 306 by Phat, posted 12-31-2015 1:19 PM Phat has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 310 by AdminPhat, posted 01-02-2016 7:36 PM Bob Bobber has not replied

  
Bob Bobber
Member (Idle past 2962 days)
Posts: 187
Joined: 12-30-2015


Message 331 of 451 (779660)
03-06-2016 9:35 PM
Reply to: Message 330 by frako
03-06-2016 6:19 PM


As long as Jesus lay in the tomb, he was just another tragic religious figure who suffered a martyr’s death. 
In fact, Paul tells us that the resurrection is the greatest display of God’s power ever to be demonstrated, nor can it ever be surpassed.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 330 by frako, posted 03-06-2016 6:19 PM frako has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 332 by jar, posted 03-06-2016 9:57 PM Bob Bobber has replied

  
Bob Bobber
Member (Idle past 2962 days)
Posts: 187
Joined: 12-30-2015


Message 333 of 451 (779663)
03-06-2016 10:07 PM
Reply to: Message 332 by jar
03-06-2016 9:57 PM


But Paul’s statement that Jesus’ resurrection was the first fruits of those who have fallen asleep, the expression first fruits has little meaning for today’s urban dwellers. In Bible times, it had a rich meaning because it referred to the first produce of the harvest, which was offered in sacrifice to God to express gratitude for granting a new harvest. 

Thus, the first fruits, which were brought to the Temple, were seen not as mere hope of a new harvest, but as its actual beginning. Jesus’ resurrection, then, is the first fruits in the sense that it has made the resurrection of believers not a mere possibility, but a certainty.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 332 by jar, posted 03-06-2016 9:57 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 335 by jar, posted 03-06-2016 10:13 PM Bob Bobber has replied

  
Bob Bobber
Member (Idle past 2962 days)
Posts: 187
Joined: 12-30-2015


Message 336 of 451 (779666)
03-06-2016 10:19 PM
Reply to: Message 335 by jar
03-06-2016 10:13 PM


But who took your sin debt? Jesus Christ! Who paid it? Jesus Christ! How much of it did he pay? All of it before you were ever born! Reconciliation has to do with sin debt.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 335 by jar, posted 03-06-2016 10:13 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 338 by jar, posted 03-06-2016 10:20 PM Bob Bobber has replied

  
Bob Bobber
Member (Idle past 2962 days)
Posts: 187
Joined: 12-30-2015


Message 339 of 451 (779669)
03-06-2016 10:23 PM
Reply to: Message 338 by jar
03-06-2016 10:20 PM


I do not know if you grasp the full scope of what predestination means? God did not predetermine to cause some individuals to belief unto eternal life, he predetermined to conform everyone who believes to his son.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 338 by jar, posted 03-06-2016 10:20 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 340 by jar, posted 03-06-2016 10:28 PM Bob Bobber has replied

  
Bob Bobber
Member (Idle past 2962 days)
Posts: 187
Joined: 12-30-2015


Message 341 of 451 (779671)
03-06-2016 10:41 PM
Reply to: Message 340 by jar
03-06-2016 10:28 PM


But reconciliation simply means a change in status, and it is a major issue recognizing reconciliation. Reconciliation from God’s advantage point is an accomplished fact, and God is reconciled where the totality of the sin debt of all men is concerned.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 340 by jar, posted 03-06-2016 10:28 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 342 by Bob Bobber, posted 03-06-2016 11:15 PM Bob Bobber has not replied
 Message 347 by Pressie, posted 03-07-2016 5:52 AM Bob Bobber has not replied
 Message 348 by jar, posted 03-07-2016 8:42 AM Bob Bobber has not replied

  
Bob Bobber
Member (Idle past 2962 days)
Posts: 187
Joined: 12-30-2015


Message 342 of 451 (779675)
03-06-2016 11:15 PM
Reply to: Message 341 by Bob Bobber
03-06-2016 10:41 PM


But you are right, there are pastors who understand God’s grace who are reluctant to preach grace, because grace will lead to a license to sin. Many of these same pastors in an effort to reduce sinning, they revert to preaching law, thinking that’s going to solve the problem. 

They want to scare the sin out of people, put their salvation on the line, dangle that up in front of them and scare them with a conditional salvation and that will straighten them up. So they stop preaching grace, as if not preaching grace is going stop people from sinning.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 341 by Bob Bobber, posted 03-06-2016 10:41 PM Bob Bobber has not replied

  
Bob Bobber
Member (Idle past 2962 days)
Posts: 187
Joined: 12-30-2015


Message 343 of 451 (779679)
03-07-2016 12:10 AM
Reply to: Message 340 by jar
03-06-2016 10:28 PM


But you are so right about the marketing. Paul was never about starting a new religion. There’s no Christianity in Paul’s letters. There are no Christians in Paul’s letters. You can’t find the word. You can’t find the concept.
But check out this persons marketing on this discussion I am in. People ARE Mixing the Gospels Together! | GON Forum
This person wants their question answered. This person is going to get mad at me, because I know if I answerer that question, that person is going to power dump a bunch of out of context versus on me. The power dump is their marketing, what are you thoughts?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 340 by jar, posted 03-06-2016 10:28 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 344 by Bob Bobber, posted 03-07-2016 12:26 AM Bob Bobber has replied
 Message 349 by jar, posted 03-07-2016 8:57 AM Bob Bobber has not replied

  
Bob Bobber
Member (Idle past 2962 days)
Posts: 187
Joined: 12-30-2015


Message 344 of 451 (779680)
03-07-2016 12:26 AM
Reply to: Message 343 by Bob Bobber
03-07-2016 12:10 AM


My point about marketing is, watch this 'hayseed theology', this person wants answers to questions. This person want to theology schools to learn how to answer those questions. So far this person wants me to answer two questions, but why go down their marketing rabbit hole?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 343 by Bob Bobber, posted 03-07-2016 12:10 AM Bob Bobber has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 345 by Bob Bobber, posted 03-07-2016 1:26 AM Bob Bobber has not replied

  
Bob Bobber
Member (Idle past 2962 days)
Posts: 187
Joined: 12-30-2015


Message 345 of 451 (779684)
03-07-2016 1:26 AM
Reply to: Message 344 by Bob Bobber
03-07-2016 12:26 AM


So this person did not get their questions answered, see what they said? Their is the marketing you are talking about?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 344 by Bob Bobber, posted 03-07-2016 12:26 AM Bob Bobber has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024