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EvC Forum ⇒ Social and Religious Issues ⇒ Faith and Belief ⇒

Does immunity disprove the fall?

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Author Topic:   Does immunity disprove the fall?
ReverendDG
Member (Idle past 4136 days)
Posts: 1119
From: Topeka,kansas
Joined: 06-06-2005

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Message 31 of 66 (353806)
10-03-2006 3:43 AM 		Reply to: Message 20 by AnswersInGenitals
10-02-2006 5:29 PM

Re: no it does not disprove the Fall,
But this is the whole story of creation told (twice) in less than a page. Just because details are in short supply, are we to understand that there were no details to provide? The exact path that A & E used to exit the garden is not named or described. Are we to understand that they just floated out? Exactly what foods Adam was to farm and what implements he was to use are not described or named. Are we to understand that...I just don't know what to understand if the absence of a detail means that the detail was truly absent. I could list hundreds of details that are not explicitly described in the text but that we know must have been in evidence at the time. Also, we know that man, after death, does not return to 'dust'; maggot feces perhaps, but not actual dust. So we know that we are expected to use our rational minds to fill in the blanks. That's all I'm trying to do.
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you have to consider who this story was written for, when the authors wrote it, if you want to, some people don't want to.
a lot of the detail was added, since being a mythical story to explain the world around them a lot of things were not written down, since most stories change and warp and relate to who the teller is talking to.
a lot of the things we hear about this story arn't even in it, like the apple and so forth, its only called a "fruit".
i figure the authors thought of it as a fig
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the book has two stories because people believed both at different times, it was after all a commity edited text
dust would be figurtive of going back to the earth, as he was considered made from the earth as the animals were
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just to add, i would think that adam and eve were just the same as us, if they existed, since why would they be any different?
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Edited by ReverendDG, : No reason given.
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ReverendDG
Member (Idle past 4136 days)
Posts: 1119
From: Topeka,kansas
Joined: 06-06-2005

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Message 58 of 66 (354276)
10-04-2006 8:14 PM 		Reply to: Message 55 by Taz
10-04-2006 3:01 PM

You know what, I don't even know why I've persisted this long on something I obviously don't believe in or even bother to think about
well, its a good try, really i've found the only way creationists win things like this is to ignore what the other debater says and keep going in the same vein as before
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God did say he will make it painful, implying that it would not have been painful before. But that's as far as I can go.
well it is a "just so" story, the hebrews like all peoples wanted a painless world, or thought there was at some point, or maybe they had easy child birth that got worse, motivation is hard to pin down
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Ok, you win. I personally think I have provided adequate quotes from Genesis, but I guess not.
god did say he would curse the ground, but i think that has to do with farming as it said adam would be condemned to farm instead of gather from the trees
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Not at all. I've been saying all along that there's no way to know if they had immune system before the fall or not. Eden was a place void of suffering. There's no mention of Adam catching a cold or getting an allergic reaction from mosquito bite. In other words, he lived in a matrix like environment surrounded by bliss.
whats the evidence that it was void of suffering? or bliss? people say this but the story really doesn't have it. why would god do such a thing as not give them an immune system?
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My reasoning doesn't entail existence of immune system before the fall. I only know that they did have immune system after the fall.
evidence of this? i mean they eat stuff and drink water, why wouldn't they need an immune system?
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Nope, let's follow this through. If we don't have an immune system at all, a simple common cold would kill any of us before we can reproduce. There might be some suffering, but it's not long before our ultimate demise.
yes and i would think god would have a bit more forthought than that
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With an immune system, we are allowed ample time to reproduce and at the same time catch some diseases that make our lives just a little harder. Because of immune system, our suffering is greatly prolonged. I say that's a punishment rather than reward.
umm, i think not having a chance to live is a lot worse than suffering a bit, well unless you are like some insane christians who view life as awful.
well the thing is most diseases eather kill you or after a while you beat them, except for things like HIV, because they attack it, but smart people don't get it anymore
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