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Author Topic:   What if Satan reformed?
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 196 of 234 (740621)
11-06-2014 11:57 AM
Reply to: Message 195 by ringo
11-05-2014 1:52 PM


Re: Fallen Angel Reform School
If satan and Jesus were together in a lineup, satan would be the one accusing Jesus of being the real bad guy. Jesus would utter nary a word. Actions speak louder than words.
As far as fighting God...we all do it at times.
Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.- Dr.John Lennox
The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.
- Criss Jami, Killo
The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him. Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 195 by ringo, posted 11-05-2014 1:52 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 197 by ringo, posted 11-07-2014 10:54 AM Phat has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 197 of 234 (740743)
11-07-2014 10:54 AM
Reply to: Message 196 by Phat
11-06-2014 11:57 AM


Re: Fallen Angel Reform School
Phat writes:
If satan and Jesus were together in a lineup, satan would be the one accusing Jesus of being the real bad guy. Jesus would utter nary a word.
Nonsense. It's the opposite. Jesus said:
quote:
John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 196 by Phat, posted 11-06-2014 11:57 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 198 by Phat, posted 11-07-2014 1:53 PM ringo has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 198 of 234 (740784)
11-07-2014 1:53 PM
Reply to: Message 197 by ringo
11-07-2014 10:54 AM


Re: Fallen Angel Reform School
soooo...which one would you pick?

Saying, "I don't know," is the same as saying, "Maybe."~ZombieRingo
One of the major purposes of debate is to help you hone your arguments. Yours are pretty bad. They can use all the honing they can get.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 197 by ringo, posted 11-07-2014 10:54 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 199 by ringo, posted 11-08-2014 11:00 AM Phat has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 199 of 234 (740924)
11-08-2014 11:00 AM
Reply to: Message 198 by Phat
11-07-2014 1:53 PM


Re: Fallen Angel Reform School
Phat writes:
soooo...which one would you pick?
To paraphrase Groucho Marx, I'd be suspicious of any club that wants me as a member.
And of course the third option is neither.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 198 by Phat, posted 11-07-2014 1:53 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 200 by Phat, posted 11-08-2014 3:25 PM ringo has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 200 of 234 (740964)
11-08-2014 3:25 PM
Reply to: Message 199 by ringo
11-08-2014 11:00 AM


Re: Fallen Angel Reform School
And of course the third option is neither....
I can hear it now....
GOD: "See, I have set before you today life and prosperity, and death and adversity; 16in that I command you today to love the LORD your God, to walk in His ways and to keep His commandments and His statutes and His judgments, that you may live and multiply, and that the LORD your God may bless you...
Ringo No thanks, I think I'll pass and just sit this one out.
Commentator Not to choose is choosing.....
Ringo Hey how do I know which one of you spooks to trust? All I can do is to trust my own conscience at this point!

Saying, "I don't know," is the same as saying, "Maybe."~ZombieRingo
One of the major purposes of debate is to help you hone your arguments. Yours are pretty bad. They can use all the honing they can get.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 199 by ringo, posted 11-08-2014 11:00 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 201 by Stile, posted 11-09-2014 9:28 AM Phat has replied
 Message 202 by ringo, posted 11-09-2014 1:25 PM Phat has replied

  
Stile
Member
Posts: 4295
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


Message 201 of 234 (741039)
11-09-2014 9:28 AM
Reply to: Message 200 by Phat
11-08-2014 3:25 PM


Re: Fallen Angel Reform School
Phat writes:
GOD "See, I have set before you today life and prosperity, and death and adversity; 16in that I command you today to love the LORD your God, to walk in His ways and to keep His commandments and His statutes and His judgments, that you may live and multiply, and that the LORD your God may bless you...
Ringo No thanks, I think I'll pass and just sit this one out.
Commentator Not to choose is choosing.....
Ringo Hey how do I know which one of you spooks to trust? All I can do is to trust my own conscience at this point!
What happened to actions speak louder than words?
Are we back to words mean everything now? What about words that you've put in Ringo's mouth? How come those are louder than Ringo's actions?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 200 by Phat, posted 11-08-2014 3:25 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 204 by Phat, posted 11-09-2014 4:00 PM Stile has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 202 of 234 (741082)
11-09-2014 1:25 PM
Reply to: Message 200 by Phat
11-08-2014 3:25 PM


Re: Fallen Angel Reform School
Phat writes:
Commentator Not to choose is choosing.....
That's why I said that not choosing either A or B is the third option. The problem is that your sadistic "god" takes a damned-if-you-choose-and-damned-if-you-don't-choose attitude. He gives no real choice.
He offers nothing but slavery. Even if the chains are soft and fluffy, you don't dare break them.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 200 by Phat, posted 11-08-2014 3:25 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 203 by Phat, posted 11-09-2014 3:54 PM ringo has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 203 of 234 (741103)
11-09-2014 3:54 PM
Reply to: Message 202 by ringo
11-09-2014 1:25 PM


Sadistic Or Security?
He gives no real choice
What sort of choice would you imagine He should offer...to your satisfaction?
He offers nothing but slavery.
One mans slavery is another mans security. You claim to want to be given the choice to grow up and leave home, but my point is that you will find...after building your own home/country/universe that you miss having a Fathering Spirit around. Men who grow up without a father never outgrow the emptiness that the reality causes.
Im betting that even satan regrets having left home---though he is likely too proud to admit it.

Saying, "I don't know," is the same as saying, "Maybe."~ZombieRingo
One of the major purposes of debate is to help you hone your arguments. Yours are pretty bad. They can use all the honing they can get.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 202 by ringo, posted 11-09-2014 1:25 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 206 by ringo, posted 11-10-2014 10:58 AM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 204 of 234 (741104)
11-09-2014 4:00 PM
Reply to: Message 201 by Stile
11-09-2014 9:28 AM


Re: Fallen Angel Reform School
Stile writes:
What about words that you've put in Ringo's mouth?
What about them? Ringo is free to refute them or elaborate on them, should he wish.
How come those are louder than Ringo's actions?
Are they?

Saying, "I don't know," is the same as saying, "Maybe."~ZombieRingo
One of the major purposes of debate is to help you hone your arguments. Yours are pretty bad. They can use all the honing they can get.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 201 by Stile, posted 11-09-2014 9:28 AM Stile has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 205 by Stile, posted 11-10-2014 10:10 AM Phat has replied

  
Stile
Member
Posts: 4295
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


Message 205 of 234 (741160)
11-10-2014 10:10 AM
Reply to: Message 204 by Phat
11-09-2014 4:00 PM


Re: Fallen Angel Reform School
Phat writes:
Stile writes:
How come those are louder than Ringo's actions?
Are they?
Um... that's a question for you.
You're the one who first said that "actions speak louder than words."
Then you go ahead and put words in Ringo's (and God's) mouth that imply Ringo's actions are worthless...
So, which of the two conflicting positions are you proposing?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 204 by Phat, posted 11-09-2014 4:00 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 208 by Phat, posted 11-12-2014 9:52 AM Stile has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 206 of 234 (741173)
11-10-2014 10:58 AM
Reply to: Message 203 by Phat
11-09-2014 3:54 PM


Re: Sadistic Or Security?
Phat writes:
What sort of choice would you imagine He should offer...to your satisfaction?
I've answered that question for you many times. All I want is to be left alone. Just don't fry me. And I don't want to live for ever and ever with somebody who fried my friends.
Phat writes:
You claim to want to be given the choice to grow up and leave home, but my point is that you will find...after building your own home/country/universe that you miss having a Fathering Spirit around.
Your point is unfounded. I could say the same empty thing to you: After half an eternity in heaven you'll miss the friends that He butchered.
Phat writes:
Men who grow up without a father never outgrow the emptiness that the reality causes.
For every man in that boat there's one who had an abusive father who's gladder than glad that the bastard is gone.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 203 by Phat, posted 11-09-2014 3:54 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 207 by Phat, posted 11-12-2014 1:37 AM ringo has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 207 of 234 (741386)
11-12-2014 1:37 AM
Reply to: Message 206 by ringo
11-10-2014 10:58 AM


Re: Sadistic Or Security?
ringo writes:
All I want is to be left alone. Just don't fry me. And I don't want to live for ever and ever with somebody who fried my friends.
Who were your friends? How did they get fried?
After half an eternity in heaven you'll miss the friends that He butchered.
We need some info for the autopsy report...how exactly did these people get butchered? We need an outline....
Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

Saying, "I don't know," is the same as saying, "Maybe."~ZombieRingo
One of the major purposes of debate is to help you hone your arguments. Yours are pretty bad. They can use all the honing they can get.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 206 by ringo, posted 11-10-2014 10:58 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 210 by ringo, posted 11-12-2014 10:55 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 208 of 234 (741420)
11-12-2014 9:52 AM
Reply to: Message 205 by Stile
11-10-2014 10:10 AM


Speaking On Behalf Of Others
Stile writes:
You're the one who first said that "actions speak louder than words."
Then you go ahead and put words in Ringo's (and God's) mouth that imply Ringo's actions are worthless...
You do have a point, though in context, Ringo and I have an understanding and method to our debates. I never willingly attack Ringos character. What I do is that I challenge Ringo to respond to my posts---and in so doing---may come across as putting words in his mouth. The motive is to trigger a response---nothing more. (Ringo please forgive me if I offend you)...now...as for you, Stile....as a non-believer how do you propose that humans describe Gods character and personality without putting words in His mouth? To some, God is a human-generated character...thus we are charged to give Him words.
I am trying to give respect to God as I make these posts, though perhaps I am presumptuous to speak for Him.

Saying, "I don't know," is the same as saying, "Maybe."~ZombieRingo
One of the major purposes of debate is to help you hone your arguments. Yours are pretty bad. They can use all the honing they can get.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 205 by Stile, posted 11-10-2014 10:10 AM Stile has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 209 by Stile, posted 11-12-2014 10:18 AM Phat has replied

  
Stile
Member
Posts: 4295
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


(1)
Message 209 of 234 (741423)
11-12-2014 10:18 AM
Reply to: Message 208 by Phat
11-12-2014 9:52 AM


Re: Speaking On Behalf Of Others
Phat writes:
....as a non-believer how do you propose that humans describe Gods character and personality without putting words in His mouth? To some, God is a human-generated character...thus we are charged to give Him words.
I don't really have a problem with the putting-words-in-His-mouth part.
I agree that this is all we have to work with.
The problem I had was the conflicting ideas.
One idea was that actions speak louder than words.
The other idea is that final words are all that matter and the actions of our life are worthless.
I was just wondering how you reconcile those two.
I am trying to give respect to God as I make these posts, though perhaps I am presumptuous to speak for Him.
And what do you really think of God?
Do you think God really cares about what people profess, regardless of their actions? (Are lawyers the most favored of God's people?)
Or do you think God really cares about what people actually do, regardless of what they profess? (Is who we are deep-down what God actually cares about?)
It's a fairly significant difference in what you think about God. So far, you've just been riding a middle road. That maybe sometimes God favors what we profess... as long as it agrees with what Phat thinks God is like. And other times, God favors our actions... as long as those actions coincide with how Phat thinks God is.
Does that sound realistic? Or does it sound like Phat is making himself into God?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 208 by Phat, posted 11-12-2014 9:52 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 211 by Phat, posted 12-09-2014 3:07 PM Stile has not replied
 Message 212 by Phat, posted 08-14-2015 1:34 AM Stile has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 210 of 234 (741434)
11-12-2014 10:55 AM
Reply to: Message 207 by Phat
11-12-2014 1:37 AM


Re: Sadistic Or Security?
Phat writes:
Who were your friends? How did they get fried?
Broadly speaking, my friends would include the members of EvC. If you're right, then you and Faith won't get fried. (If Faith is right, you might get fried. ) Most of the rest of us seem to be fair game, according to your theology, because we have "chosen" to be without God.
Phat writes:
We need some info for the autopsy report...how exactly did these people get butchered? We need an outline....
H.E.L.L.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 207 by Phat, posted 11-12-2014 1:37 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
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