Harm in Homosexuality?

I believe that the issue goes back to the grand design that the Bible sets forth in Genesis. It seems that the original grand design was that everything was created male and female and the commission was to be fruitful and multiply. From the rest of the text which tracks thousands of years in time, the commision doesn't seem to have changed. Species were created male and female for the purpose of reproduction. So the author of the Bible expects this natural law to be followed. Any other example that can be gleaned from nature is proof of a corrupt and fallen world from a Biblical perspective.The Bible's view of any other sexual arangement is viewed as a corruption of the grand design and an attack on the intentions of the Creator just as much as the original fall in the garden. The Creator sets the rules as the Creator sees fit.(Because it's the Creator's creation, not the creation's creation) When Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit to gain self awareness, that became the gateway action to sin and death. Re-writing the pairing makeup is a gateway action to modifying the creation rules which is not man's priviliage which is why it is condemed.Homosexual activity cannot reproduce, it can only recruit to procreate. Even though homosexual desires are not a choice since nobody would willingly choose that, it is viewed by the Bible to be a result of the corruption of this world just like any other vise. So it is taken seriously as something to be avoided just like the Bible instructs people to avoid many other entrapments of a fallen world. Homosexual temptations to one person is like alcohol temptations to an alcoholic. There is no denying that the temptation is there and the Accuser is more familiar with each human's weakness and makeup than the actual individual is. So if you were the accuser, why waste time tempting everyone with alcohol when that only works on a small percentage? Better to tempt each individual with what will most likely make them fall. So everyone is tempted in their own unique script, custom designed to due maximun damage. Everyone is in a fallen state because of the garden fall by Adam and Eve, but not everyone is going to respond the same to every temptation since we are all unique as a creation. The results are manefest UNIQUE to the INDIVIDUAL. So being tempted by homosexuality is not a sin according to the Bible, that's just the accuser being efficient at attacking you. Caving in and acting on it is when it becomes wrong in the Bible's economy.According to the Bible though, Homosexuality is perticularly powerful in that it is a gateway sin to many others. You know what the scriptures of the Bible claim happens to someone who acts on the temptation. But it is not a sin for being tempted by a particular desire, only when the temptation is acted on.So does the Bible ever say that if one man takes another man's penis in his mouth for pleasure that his brain will melt or he will get stomach cancer? No, so there are no imediate tangible results from the act itself. But it does again point out that it goes against the grand design and claims that it leads to a host of other sins which is why it is delt with in the manner recorded in the scritpures.This message has been edited by Lizard Breath, 11-14-2004 08:58 PMThis message has been edited by Lizard Breath, 11-14-2004 09:00 PM

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So buy a plane ticket and get over here to be my slave if you want to not go to hell after you die.

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I'll come over to where ever you supposedly are but I doubt if it will be in the capacity of your slave.

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If you don't specifically quote the bible verses in this thread, I curse thee to go to hell.

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The initiator of this thread and most of the active posters in it are well aware of the verses in the Bible that I refer to and the instructions in the initial opener were not to include pages of Biblical scripture. If you have issue with backdoor stabs then take it up with the initiator of this thread. Otherwise, change your MC from Lam to Lame.

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Either post your specific biblical verses in that thread or retract your claim, get on your knees, and beg people like me for forgiveness.

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Make me.

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The cause of the temptation is irrelivant, actions are right or wrong depending on the circumstances and the individuals harmed, not the source of the desire.

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Pedophilic sex is NESSESARALY wrong because children are inevitably harmed by it. Even a "consenting" child should not be allowed to have sex with an adult because of the gross harm that would be done to the child.

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If the actions of the individual are determined by the genetic makeup, then nothing is wrong with any of the actions. It's just the kinetic manifestation of the electro-chemical reaction happening inside the brain. The electro-chemical reaction has no right or wrong litmus test that is used before an act is carried out. It has no moral code to filter itself through. The genetic arrangement of the neuro network in the brain forces the individual to persue pedophilia behavior, just as homosexual networks due in other's.How can a ball falling from the sky be morally wrong? How can lightning hitting the ground be wrong? How can a tidal wave slamming into the coast be wrong? They are not even if they produce damage to someone or something. So neither can pedophilia be wrong if it is based on genetic makeup. Morality becomes irrelevant because everyone's morality is going to be different from everyone else's. You can always excuse your own behavior with an excuse while accusing someone else of a similiar behavior because their circumstances were not the same as yours.So in my perspective, argueing homosexuality from a moral perspective is pointless unless everyone on the planet can agree on the same set of morals, which is impossible. You either go off of a moral standard revealed by a being outside of our space/time dimension or you reject the concept of moral - right/wrong as ambiguous and subjective.Some say killing is right, some say it's wrong, some say it's wrong all the time, some say it's right in certain circumstances, some say it's good as capital punishment, some say capital punishment is murder.

You're trying to start an arguement with me over something that you said, not me. If you have a problem with who you are, then go change yourself, if you can, You'll find that no one can change themselves. So in like manner I am not picking on Gays. The originator said he wanted to know why homosexual behavior was wrong according to the Bible without scriptures being quoted page after page, so I gave a brief synopsis of what the theme of the subject reads in the Bible.As far as a woman sucking my cock as being wrong, think again. The Bible says that the bed is undefiled between a husband and a wife so in my scale of economy that gives me great lattitude as to what we can and cannot due with each other in bed under the umbrella of one man and one woman in legal holy marriage.If you can find anything in my post where I personally am "picking" on homosexuals, then quote it first and then respond. Otherwise, go pick a fight with one of the "better than you" zeolots on this board. You'll find that I place myself no higher or lower than anyone else hear reguardless of their particular story.

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That's correct. But what about the reality of these recent days? Where christians do what they like - without geting married? What about them?

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That is a tough topic to approach the christians on who are doing this type of act. If you want to be accepting of all people and emphasize the "Love" and "Forgiveness" nature of the Creator according to the Bible, then many churches look away from this behavior in hopes of not offending anyone. But these same people then over do it ralleying around the Gay issue as a terrible sin. According to what the Bible says, this position is the wrong one to take and in my view, it's hypocritacal of the Church to even tollerate it.The Bible places fornication between the opposite sex as just as serious as fornication between same sex partners. So if you are going to really be the "Salt of the Earth" as the Bible says, then you should confront heterosexual and homosexual fornication EQUALLY from a Biblical perspective. They are both equally wrong in the Creators eyes and it's only man who has placed them in different courts. This is a function of our evolving society and it's changing moral values. But the Bible has been non-changing over the centuries that it was written and is still 100% applicable today. So those who turn a blind eye to heterosexual fornication but then rant on about homosexuality are scripturally confused at best and possibly not even Christians but merely using the Bible to support their own biggoted positon, perhaps to mask their own identitiy short comings.The issue isn't homosexual sin, it's sexual sin and when it's placed in it's proper perspective it is seen for what it is. All sexual sin is an offense to the Creator and according to the Bible, anyone who continually practices sexual sin after being revealed the truth, will not see God's kingdom. The Bible alludes to the fact that as a spiritual litmus test, if the Spirit of God is alive in a person (which basically means they are saved), then they will have great difficulty and spiritual unrest in themselves as they practice in sexual sin. If they continue on in the sin with no remorse or spiritual unrest, there is a good chance that they are not even saved in the first place, which is why homosexual unions are dangerous to the person.The Creator made no provission for same sex marriage so any form of it, no matter how loving and faithful and fullfilling, is still sexual sin according to the Bible. If someone chooses to live in this arrangement, then they are rolling the dice as to weather the Bible is then a document revealed by a being outside of our space/time dimension or it is just a fabrication of some clever scholors. If it is just a fab from man, then no problem, but if is indeed from the Creator, man they've got troubles.Finally (and I know I'm getting winded), the Bible warns against promiscuous sex because everytime a man has intercourse with a woman, the two become one in a spiritual sence. Since man was created with a limited intimate spiritual ability, the more women he has intercourse with, the thinner he is spreading himself in the abiblity to be solely captivated by that single one special mate. The same effect pertains to the woman. Since the Creator made no natural provission for same sex intercourse, one can only wonder what kind of spiritual crazyness is happening to the soles of people who enguage in this. It says in the Bible that when they do this they are given over to a debased mind which if interpreted MIGHT mean that the person's spiritual bonding ability has been corrupted or knocked way off center which makes it hard to see reality from a non-homosexual perspective or even bring themselves back to normal center. That's only my interpretation of what the Bible means by "given over to a debased mind" so if you take issue with that, it is me and not the Bible to critique.

I don't know how she was using the Bible to justify her position or where she received her revelation about what God hates, but according to the Bible, it is never stated that God hates a person for practicing homosexual sex actions. The Bible claims that God hates the sin, but not the sinner. Her presumtion that God hates fags would also condem her. If he hates the sinner as much as the sin then he would also hate people with self righteous pride which is what I sence is ozzing from her mind.Actually, God addresses the issue of self righteousness 10 fold more in the Bible then any other single sin and probably 100 fold more than homosexuality, so she should be greatly concerned if her exposition of God's disposition is correct.

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Why is doing something "unnatural" wrong? What are your criteria for deturmining what is and isn't unatural? Is getting a haircut unnatural? Becase, after all according to your logic, if God had wanted us to get our hair cut he would have had it stop growing after it becomes the approprate length? Is planting crops unnatural? After all according to your logic if god had wanted us to have feilds of crops he would have made them grow like that. You need to prove that:

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According to your logic, you answered your own question. If God had intended for there to be just one human, he would have stopped at Adam. If God intended for there to be only 2 humans, he would have created Steve from Adam and the 2 would have enjoyed each other sexually because being the same, they would know how to please each other without the distractions of the opposite gender dispositions. Perhaps Steve would have been a more formidable opponent for the serpent at the tree and we wouldn't be where we are today (speaking from a Biblically historical perspective).According to the Bible, God did intend for us to populate so he created the male/female arrangement and he left it at that without creating a third being called Steve, that would have been Adam's lover while Eve was his reproduction factory. Also, he did not create Eva from Eve to give her a same sex companion to rush to after the reproductive act with Adam was completed. So he made one arrangement, one man to one woman as blueprinted in Genesis 3.The naturals of us are that we grow to a certain size and then stop and we have little say about that. The hair length is a choice as is fingernail length and hygene. After all, if God wanted us to be physically cleanly, he would have made our skin in such a way that it would repel dirt. He would not have made the Sun because it burns the skin - another unnatural act.As far as crops, the Bible says that Adam had dominion over the earth, so his powers were far greater than ours are in matters of food production. As it is, farming is natural as was commanded that we will eat of the dust of the ground all of the days we live.As far as eye glasses being unnatural, if your logic holds up, then Jesus should have condemed the sick and lame for having walking aids since they are unnatural, but he never did that. Even Moses carried a walking staff and that instrument was used by God to demonstrate his powers. According to you, God should have made fire shoot out of the Burning Bush and incinerate Moses for bring the abomination in his hand near the Holy Ground.