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Author
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Topic: God is cruel
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Protomenace
Junior Member (Idle past 6593 days) Posts: 15 Joined: 04-02-2006
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Message 1 of 301 (300366)
04-02-2006 7:15 PM
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First let's make some assumptions. Let's assume that god is real, god created me, and atheists go to hell. Ok, so if god created me, didn't he make me the way I am? He made a person who requires empirical evidence to believe things. As we all know, god has supplied no such evidence. So I go to hell? Wait a second, that seems a little unfair god. It's not my fault I'm the way I am, it's your fault. You made me this way. Isn't that a bit cruel on god's part? So, I have to assume that A. God is cruel. or B. God isn't real. This message has been edited by protomenace, 04-02-2006 06:52 PM Promoted to Faith & Belief by AdminJar
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Protomenace
Junior Member (Idle past 6593 days) Posts: 15 Joined: 04-02-2006
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Message 42 of 301 (300650)
04-03-2006 3:09 PM
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The general consensus seems to be that my argument is logically sound, and the debate is about whether or not simply being an atheist merits a trip to hell. Following the same principles of logic, would it not be correct to infer that if such a god exists (one that creates all), it would be indirectly responsible for all occurances in the universe it has created, including criminal behavior? This message has been edited by protomenace, 04-03-2006 03:16 PM
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Protomenace
Junior Member (Idle past 6593 days) Posts: 15 Joined: 04-02-2006
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Well, then either he exists and sends people to hell for making choices which he outlined in their creation, or he does not exist.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 43 by robinrohan, posted 04-03-2006 3:13 PM | | robinrohan has not replied |
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Protomenace
Junior Member (Idle past 6593 days) Posts: 15 Joined: 04-02-2006
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What do you think causes you to make the choices you do? Are your choices not defined by your personality and your environment? Does god not control both of these? If he does not control personality, then how does it come about?
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Protomenace
Junior Member (Idle past 6593 days) Posts: 15 Joined: 04-02-2006
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How could god not control genetics? He created the riginal set of genes in the first people, and all sources of mutation, did he not? How could god not control the environment? He created everything in the environment did he not? In his infinite knowledge, he's sure to know all of the interactions which will take place.
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Protomenace
Junior Member (Idle past 6593 days) Posts: 15 Joined: 04-02-2006
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So by your argument, these things(genes and environment) are totally random, and in that case not controlled by the person who finally ends up with the genes and such. It's still not that person's fault, and in any case, even if god made such things randomly, he would still know what the outcome would be. And even if he doesn't excercise this ability, it's still not the person's fault. They just got unlucky with their genes and upbringing. This message has been edited by protomenace, 04-03-2006 06:45 PM This message has been edited by protomenace, 04-03-2006 07:00 PM
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Protomenace
Junior Member (Idle past 6593 days) Posts: 15 Joined: 04-02-2006
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But the things(genes and environment) don't make the decision for the person, the person makes it so it is the person's fault. I don't suscribe to determinism, I think we have free will, I don't think that the decisions I'm going to make have already been made for me. e, you still choose to sin. If, for some reason, you do something bad that was not a result of you choosing to do it, then that is not considered sinning, but there are bad things that you do that you choose to do, and those are sins. Yes, the person makes the choice. He makes that choice based on his personality. He wasn't able to choose his personality. We are arguing in circles here. What will happen, will happen. The only option besides determinism, is complete randomness, which still doesn't help your argument.
So, if you do agree with your quote, why do you think that people who believe in god also hold people responsible for their actions? For two reasons. First, they don't understand the concept I'm trying to get across. Second, if you don't punish someone for their actions they are likely to it again.
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Protomenace
Junior Member (Idle past 6593 days) Posts: 15 Joined: 04-02-2006
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You act as though people somehow choose their own personality. Where are they drawing this choice from then? Do we have an infinite chain of personalities choosing other personalities??? This message has been edited by protomenace, 04-04-2006 04:32 PM
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Protomenace
Junior Member (Idle past 6593 days) Posts: 15 Joined: 04-02-2006
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I'm not acting as anything. I keep it real, wody. Your personality does not make your decisions for you. You make the decision, consciously, your personality is just a part of you. You can't blame your choices on something else. Did I choose to be me? No.
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Protomenace
Junior Member (Idle past 6593 days) Posts: 15 Joined: 04-02-2006
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Let's start over. What do you think makes up a person, and more specifically, what do you think are all of the factors on his decision making? This message has been edited by protomenace, 04-04-2006 05:15 PM This message has been edited by protomenace, 04-04-2006 05:21 PM
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Protomenace
Junior Member (Idle past 6593 days) Posts: 15 Joined: 04-02-2006
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Do not try to avoid answering my questions please.
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Protomenace
Junior Member (Idle past 6593 days) Posts: 15 Joined: 04-02-2006
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What is this mysterious factor in decision making that is not attributed to your environment or personality that you speak of when you say "you"? Edit, to AdminNWR: I think determinism is very on-topic in this discussion as it is being used as support for my OP. He refuted the validity of my support, and I am trying to defend it. Is it still considered off-topic anyway? This message has been edited by protomenace, 04-04-2006 05:51 PM
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