God is cruel

I tend to agree with you somewhat, anglagard! (Welcome to EvC by the way! )Just as the Pharisees and Sadducees were intellectually complete yet had dead hearts, so too may many of the modern fundamentalists possess extraordinary abilities to quote, recall, and use scripture to support their positions.The real issue is whether anyone can understand and benefit from the message shown!

Hi, I think it is safe to assume that Adam and Eve knew that in the day that they ate the fruit they would only spiritually die! Brian.

Hi Proto, Being logically sound doesn't really mean much when you yourself have made up the premises.For example:All four legged creatures are cats
Saddlers Wells had four legs
Therefore Saddlers Wells was a cat.This argument is logically sound as well.Brian.

Every single thing in your life in order for it to be true requires this evidence?Can you prove that your mother loves you?

that's fine but why does the child's children and all their descendants have to live with the consequences ?Now here's a question : If that was your child touching the hot pot and you ensured that your child and all its descendants would have to live with the consequences for the rest of their lives, which of the following adjectives would be applicable to you and why ? :- 'just'
- 'loving'
- 'cruel'This message has been edited by Legend, 04-04-2006 08:21 AM

---

"In life, you have to face that some days you'll be the pigeon and some days you'll be the statue."

In the day, not on the day.
Ultimately they died.

They don't have to, they choose to.

Hi RR, This is different from my Bible (NIV), which states:Genesis 2:17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die." But they were dying anyway.Adam and Eve were not immortal, they would have died regardless of whether they ate the fruit or not.Brian.

riVeRrat Bullshit obfuscation, rr, since this is directly in conflict with the rest of the sentence"for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.as the present tense implied of the eating of the fruit indicates the punishment to be immediate.It would not be a punishment to ultimately perish since they were doubtless going to die anyway. This is made plain by the fact that hey had not eaten of the tree of life.You grasp at straws to support an invalid position.This message has been edited by sidelined, Tue, 2006-04-04 07:31 AM

BrianSince there is no valid inference to be made though from the sentence in genesis that would constitute invoking her "own crazy ideas for which there is no support."We shall see what method of arguement this must entail to maintain a semblence of honest discourse on her part.

Yeah, it depends on what your definition of "in" is.

---

"We had survived to turn on the History Channel
And ask our esteemed panel, Why are we alive? And here's how they replied:
You're what happens when two substances collide
And by all accounts you really should have died."
-Andrew Bird

Hi Sidey, Oh there will be some self-justifying excuse, my bet is on praying for help to understand.What I will say is that a physical death cannot be justified from that passage, that is why the apologists came up with the 'spiritual death' excuse.But, ultimately (love that word), they didn't know it was bad to disobey God, they didn't know what 'bad' was. At the same time, they didn't know it was 'good' to obey God because they didn't know what 'good' was either.I think the easiest way to accept this is to understand how ancient writers constructed their tales. They really weren't that bothered about the soundness of a story, after all their audience was hardly a collection of critics.Brian.

Also depends on which version of the Bible you take as being the 'true' version.Holman's Christian Standard Bible is different:Genesis 2:17but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for on the day you eat from it, you will certainly die." It clearly says 'on'.Here is an even more problematic version, the Contemporary English Version.except the one that has the power to let you know the difference between right and wrong. If you eat any fruit from that tree, you will die before the day is over!" They were to die before the day was over!We can even narrow it down with another version! The Message:except from the Tree-of-Knowledge-of-Good-and-Evil. Don't eat from it. The moment you eat from that tree, you're dead."The very moment you eat from it.It must be a nightmare being a literalist.Brian.

errr.....no! the children don't choose to live with the sins of the parents, they have to.we don't choose to live with the consequences of Adam & Eve's decisions, God makes sure we do.It's HIS rules not OUR choice.do you think this characterises a person as 'just' or 'loving' or merely as 'cruel' ?

---

"In life, you have to face that some days you'll be the pigeon and some days you'll be the statue."

NO.. I can't.. I'd like to think she does, and all the evidence says she does (30 years of worrying about me, picking me up when I fall, fixing my cuts and bruises etc.. etc), but It can't be proved.your point?