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Author | Topic: God is cruel | |||||||||||||||||||
ramoss Member (Idle past 611 days) Posts: 3228 Joined: |
Because I don't find them equally implausible.
Why?
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Brian Member (Idle past 4959 days) Posts: 4659 From: Scotland Joined: |
Because I don't find them equally implausible. How did you come to this conclusion given that they are equally unsupported by evidence? Brian. *Oops, just saw Ramoss' reply, I'll take your reply to him to cover both of us. Sorry bout that. This message has been edited by Brian, Tuesday, 04-04-2006 01:02 PM
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
Well this isn't the thread for and I don't really feel like, or have time for, a rationalization of my faith but I will quickly answer the question.
How did you come to this conclusion given that they are equally unsupported by evidence? Lack of evidence doesn't bother me. Evidence against can be a problem. I think its obvious that humans did not emerge as described by Genesis. A simple lack of evidence for Jesus' divinity isn't going to end my faith.
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Brian Member (Idle past 4959 days) Posts: 4659 From: Scotland Joined: |
Evidence against can be a problem. There's evidence against Jesus' exploits as well.
I think its obvious that humans did not emerge as described by Genesis. I think it is obvious that men do not die and then come back to life three days later.
A simple lack of evidence for Jesus' divinity isn't going to end my faith. With a little more faith you could believe in Genesis too? Thanks for the replies. Brian.
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
There's evidence against Jesus' exploits as well. I think the evidence against Genesis is much stronger than the evidence against Jesus' With a little more faith you could believe in Genesis too? Probably not, I can accept it as a possibility but I don't think it actually happened.
I think it is obvious that men do not die and then come back to life three days later. But is it obvious that they never have? Plus, if you believe in god, anything is possible. Why is Genesis not possible, you ask?, because of the strength of the evidence against it. The evidence agianst Jesus' isn't strong enough for me. Can I conceive of enough evidence to end my faith in Jesus? Yes, I can. What is it? I don't know, haven't thought about it much.
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Brian Member (Idle past 4959 days) Posts: 4659 From: Scotland Joined: |
Hi J,
But they are simply statements that define what a Christian believes, they do not preclude an Atheist from being saved. The point I was making was in reference to this statement from post 18: According to the Bible and the Creeds, God, for us and our salvation, came down from heaven and became man. There are no restrictions on who the "us" refers to. According to the Nicene Creed, God did not come down for everyone, it clearly states who the 'us' are, and it certainly isn't atheists. Brian.
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jar Member (Idle past 393 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
According to your reading. However, I read it as unbounded. Just as man implies more than the subset "male of the species", it implies more than just the subset "Those who profess to believe in the Christian GOD".
The Creeds are a form of Club Membership statement. They are the things that define whether one is a member of the club, Christians, or not. They are not the Gospel, or the message, that IMHO Jesus brought. Before going much further, I need to once again say that we are talking here of personal beliefs, and in the context of trying to establish whether or not GOD is cruel. As I outlined in Message 6, if the three assumptions in the OP are true, then the answer is, "Yes, God is cruel." I do not read the Creeds as excluding Atheists from salvation any more than it excludes women, however it does exclude them from membership in the club, "Christian." In addition, I believe that the Bible clearly states that salvation will be a function of ones actions, how one behaves as opposed to what one believes or professes to believe. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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Protomenace Junior Member (Idle past 6567 days) Posts: 15 Joined: |
But the things(genes and environment) don't make the decision for the person, the person makes it so it is the person's fault. I don't suscribe to determinism, I think we have free will, I don't think that the decisions I'm going to make have already been made for me. e, you still choose to sin. If, for some reason, you do something bad that was not a result of you choosing to do it, then that is not considered sinning, but there are bad things that you do that you choose to do, and those are sins. Yes, the person makes the choice. He makes that choice based on his personality. He wasn't able to choose his personality. We are arguing in circles here. What will happen, will happen. The only option besides determinism, is complete randomness, which still doesn't help your argument.
So, if you do agree with your quote, why do you think that people who believe in god also hold people responsible for their actions? For two reasons. First, they don't understand the concept I'm trying to get across. Second, if you don't punish someone for their actions they are likely to it again.
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
The only option besides determinism, is complete randomness I disagree with this assertion. Perhaps you could explain to me why this is true.
they don't understand the concept I'm trying to get across well you can put me in that boat
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Protomenace Junior Member (Idle past 6567 days) Posts: 15 Joined: |
You act as though people somehow choose their own personality. Where are they drawing this choice from then? Do we have an infinite chain of personalities choosing other personalities???
This message has been edited by protomenace, 04-04-2006 04:32 PM
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
You act as though people somehow choose their own personality. I'm not acting as anything. I keep it real, wody. Your personality does not make your decisions for you. You make the decision, consciously, your personality is just a part of you. You can't blame your choices on something else.
Do we have an infinite chain of personalities choosing other personalities??? I don't know what the hell you are typing about.
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Protomenace Junior Member (Idle past 6567 days) Posts: 15 Joined: |
I'm not acting as anything. I keep it real, wody. Your personality does not make your decisions for you. You make the decision, consciously, your personality is just a part of you. You can't blame your choices on something else. Did I choose to be me? No.
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
Did I choose to be me? No. and that wasn't a conscious decision, nor a sin. but some of the things you do are.
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Protomenace Junior Member (Idle past 6567 days) Posts: 15 Joined: |
Let's start over. What do you think makes up a person, and more specifically, what do you think are all of the factors on his decision making?
This message has been edited by protomenace, 04-04-2006 05:15 PM This message has been edited by protomenace, 04-04-2006 05:21 PM
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
Let's start over. No thanks.
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