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Author Topic:   That certain kind of Christian
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 31 of 62 (445492)
01-02-2008 4:39 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by Taz
01-02-2008 4:36 PM


Then stop asserting absolutes Taz. So far you seem no different that Fred Phelps.

Immigration has been a problem Since 1607!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by Taz, posted 01-02-2008 4:36 PM Taz has replied

Replies to this message:
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Taz
Member (Idle past 3291 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 32 of 62 (445494)
01-02-2008 4:45 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by jar
01-02-2008 4:39 PM


Ok, jar.

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macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3927 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 33 of 62 (445495)
01-02-2008 4:47 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by Taz
01-02-2008 4:38 PM


i'm willing to say you're acting under the fallacy of false negatives... something like the fallacy of false positives, but when you're looking for something not to happen.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by Taz, posted 01-02-2008 4:38 PM Taz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by Taz, posted 01-02-2008 4:50 PM macaroniandcheese has replied

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 3291 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 34 of 62 (445500)
01-02-2008 4:50 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by macaroniandcheese
01-02-2008 4:47 PM


Huh?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by macaroniandcheese, posted 01-02-2008 4:47 PM macaroniandcheese has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 35 by macaroniandcheese, posted 01-02-2008 5:30 PM Taz has replied

  
macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3927 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 35 of 62 (445508)
01-02-2008 5:30 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by Taz
01-02-2008 4:50 PM


you want to believe that no christian has ever told nem off, so you don't notice when they do, only when they don't.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by Taz, posted 01-02-2008 4:50 PM Taz has replied

Replies to this message:
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Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 36 of 62 (445514)
01-02-2008 6:13 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by macaroniandcheese
01-02-2008 12:09 PM


brennakimi writes:
........jesus takes great care to say love your neighbor. .............and then he says love your enemy.
Was loving Jesus being hateful when he warned of Hell and the likelyhood that many will go there? In Matthew 10:28 he warns to fear God who is able to cast both body and soul into Hell. Luke also has the same account in Luke 12:5.
In Matthew 18:9 and Mark 9:47 is another warning by loving Jesus relative to the body being cast into Hell for unrepentant offenders.
In Matthew 28:33 loving Jesus warns of the damnation of Hell, calling the religious Jewish Pharasees, his accusers, serpents and "offspring of vipers."
Finally, loving Jesus tells the account of the rich man in Hell, who pleaded for Abraham to send someone from the dead to warn his five living brothers in order that they may escape coming to the place of torment. Abraham answers that even if someone came from the dead the brothers would refuse to be persuaded.
I say loving Jesus relative to these warnings because perhaps relative to the rich man's pleading for someone to warn his brothers the preachers, evangelists, missionaries and laypeople who warn of Hell fire are doing a loving thing in order that some might listen, repent and receive the sin atonement of the savior, Jesus so as to keep the ones being warned out of the place of torment where the rich man was.
Granted, some use bad PR in presenting the message, but perhaps also those preachers who fail to warn are the least loving & caring after all.
My conversion as a child was partly due to the fear of Hell. I now appreciate the fact that my the church elders and teachers preached the whole counsel of God, including topics more difficult to preach and teach in that some would take offense.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by macaroniandcheese, posted 01-02-2008 12:09 PM macaroniandcheese has replied

Replies to this message:
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 Message 39 by Rahvin, posted 01-02-2008 8:54 PM Buzsaw has replied
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macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3927 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 37 of 62 (445517)
01-02-2008 6:16 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by Buzsaw
01-02-2008 6:13 PM


but that judgment is jesus' place to make, not yours. teach, but do not accuse. worship, but do not judge.

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Cold Foreign Object 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3047 days)
Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 38 of 62 (445535)
01-02-2008 8:25 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by crashfrog
03-03-2004 11:29 PM


C'mon, you Christians. Do you really think that's how God wants you to represent his message?
Where is your example of uncivility? What was offered in the OP was nothing of the sort.
It appears you have none, but it goes without saying that uncivility, invective, trash-talking, poison-the-well, slander and libel are unacceptable tactics. It also goes without saying that both, Christian evolutionists and Christian antievolutionists, have engaged in these things. And Atheist evolutionists engage in these things, would you like an example from Richard Dawkins?
Ray

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Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4032
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 9.2


Message 39 of 62 (445536)
01-02-2008 8:54 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by Buzsaw
01-02-2008 6:13 PM


Was loving Jesus being hateful when he warned of Hell and the likelyhood that many will go there?
When he's supposed to be the one who sends you there?
Am I being loving or hateful if I put a gun to your head and warn you that I'll pull the trigger if you don't do what I say?
Were loving medieval torturers being hateful when they warned accused witches what they would do if they didn't repent?
Is a loving wife-beater being hateful when he warns his wife that he'll break her nose if she doesn't do the dishes?
My conversion as a child was partly due to the fear of Hell.
Funny. My deconversion was partly because I don't believe a loving god could possibly use fear of eternal torture and still be called "good."
Edited by Rahvin, : Wrong tag. Oops.

Every time a fundy breaks the laws of thermodynamics, Schroedinger probably kills his cat.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by Buzsaw, posted 01-02-2008 6:13 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
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 Message 43 by Buzsaw, posted 01-02-2008 9:56 PM Rahvin has replied

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 3291 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 40 of 62 (445541)
01-02-2008 9:25 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by macaroniandcheese
01-02-2008 5:30 PM


As a matter of fact, I do notice that some christians do tell nem off. The thing is they hardly ever do.
How about this, next time nem decides to compare gay people to people who eat feces or whatever, I'll keep my eyes wide open and see if indeed christians do rally to the defense of gay people.

This message is a reply to:
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Taz
Member (Idle past 3291 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 41 of 62 (445543)
01-02-2008 9:30 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by Rahvin
01-02-2008 8:54 PM


I've brought up this point many times before. Christians claim with pride that god gives them free will. Look at the following scenario.
Say that you are a rap artist. I have you all tied up and completely exposed. I tell you that you have to sing to me a rap song. If you don't, I will cut off your penis. Ok, so singing a rap song isn't that big of a deal, but is it free will anymore if you are faced with the fear of having your penis cut off?
You might be a good person by nature. But is it free will for you to decide to do good if you are constantly haunted by the threat of eternal damnation?

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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nwr
Member
Posts: 6408
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 42 of 62 (445548)
01-02-2008 9:49 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by Taz
01-02-2008 9:30 PM


That's not really a free will issue. What you describe is a case of action under duress, and those are not the circumstances where you are expected to be able to choose freely.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by Taz, posted 01-02-2008 9:30 PM Taz has replied

Replies to this message:
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Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 43 of 62 (445551)
01-02-2008 9:56 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by Rahvin
01-02-2008 8:54 PM


What you're not understanding in all this is:
1. If God is who he claims to be he calls the shots.
2. What he does and requires is best for the universe and the planet at large for the irradication of evil. It's his universe and his planet. He knows what's best to suit him.
3. If he's really king/majesty/almighty who are we to oppose him. We loose if we do.
4. The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom according to Proverbs. If he's intelligent and wise enough to design everything he knows what's best for the planet and universe.
Btw, God the father, Jehovah is the one who condemns to Hell according to the scripture which I cited. Jesus came to save, not to condemn. Loving God sent Jesus to pay the sin penalty which is death. The bottom line is that all are blessed and saved who submit to the authority of God. We who have yielded and submitted to him are blessed. Our nation has been blessed because we have been people of the book beginning with our founders.
The examples you used relative to how people treat others has no bearing to this. We are to do to others as we would have them do to us. With God it's different, he being supreme over all. What we may see as an act of cruelty may be for the good of the universe at large, i.e, the big picture. Thus the flood which wiped out most of humanity and thus the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah.
The bottom line is if you want to enjoy and understand the blessings of God's love you must assume the responsibilities which he requires in the book which he has caused to be written revealing himself to us. If he be supreme god indeed and you rebel, you loose, no matter what you think about how he runs the universe.
As per the thread topic, that certain kind of Christian who believes in Hell and talks about it even warning, if done in the spirit of compassion is the kind of person Jesus was.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by Rahvin, posted 01-02-2008 8:54 PM Rahvin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by jar, posted 01-02-2008 10:08 PM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 49 by Rahvin, posted 01-02-2008 10:41 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 52 by Rrhain, posted 01-02-2008 10:52 PM Buzsaw has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 44 of 62 (445552)
01-02-2008 10:08 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by Buzsaw
01-02-2008 9:56 PM


Here come de judge
Buz writes:
Jesus came to save, not to condemn.
Ah Buz, Jesus is the Judge and will be the one to condemn.
We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made,
of one Being with the Father.
Through him all things were made.
For us and for our salvation
he came down from heaven:
by the power of the Holy Spirit
he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary,
and was made man.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered death and was buried.
On the third day he rose again
in accordance with the Scriptures;
he ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead,
and his kingdom will have no end.
Matthew 25 writes:
31"When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. 32All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
34"Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.'
37"Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?'
40"The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'
41"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.'
44"They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?'
45"He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'
46"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."

Immigration has been a problem Since 1607!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by Buzsaw, posted 01-02-2008 9:56 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
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Rrhain
Member
Posts: 6351
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003


Message 45 of 62 (445560)
01-02-2008 10:33 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by macaroniandcheese
01-02-2008 2:54 PM


brennakimi writes:
quote:
what exactly does gay marriage have to do with the economy?
Well, it means about a quarter of a billion dollars to California. If same-sex couples got married at the same rate that they entered civil union in Vermont, the state of California would save about $250 billion in expenditures due to the fact that the citizenry would be considered joint rather than single.
So if one is truly concerned about the economy, then one is in favor of equality in marriage.

Rrhain

Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.

This message is a reply to:
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