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Author Topic:   Who's More Moral?
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6269
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 82 of 125 (391841)
03-27-2007 5:15 PM
Reply to: Message 76 by Rob
03-27-2007 2:42 PM


Re: Internalize
Rob writes:

Who is pure in heart?

purpledawn msg71 writes:

It is a shame you don't feel a pure heart is possible.

I would need to know what you are refering to when you say heart.

But I just checked and that muscle in my chest that pumps blood through the rest of the body was still there and operating properly.

So if you mean a person can have a pure body I would agree as I believe Enoch, Elisha and Jesus qualify. The first two because God took them to heaven without dying and the second because he died so I could have a perfect body someday.

If you are refering to the soul, anyone can have one by receiving Jesus Christ as their saviour.

If you are talking about the MIND that is a long way off. This is the part that causes us to do the moral things we are talking about we analyze information and make choices as to what we think is good and bad.

As I have said I have Atheist friends, who would give me the shirt off their back if I needed it or anything else they had and the feeling is mutual.

I have so called Christian friends that are the most self centered inconsiderate people on the face of the earth.

I also have Christian friends that I would not want to be without as I know they would be a friend indeed.

So Atheist or so called Christian who is the most moral? I would have to say that it depends on the person and the values they have chosen to live their life by.

Edited by ICANT, : wrong word substituted on for of


This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by Rob, posted 03-27-2007 2:42 PM Rob has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 84 by Rob, posted 03-27-2007 5:54 PM ICANT has not yet responded

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6269
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 86 of 125 (391848)
03-27-2007 6:00 PM
Reply to: Message 73 by ringo
03-27-2007 12:53 PM


Re: Performance
Ringo writes:

And Jesus agreed. Whether or not you get to heaven depends on your performance in this world:

Ringo these are scriptures you quote, can you be specific and point out the one or ones that say you have to do any of these things to get to heaven.

I included the preceding 3 verses for clarification of what was being said.

quote:
Matt 25:31 (KJS) When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth [his] sheep from the goats:
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

quote:

Mat 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
Mat 25:35 For I was hungry, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
Mat 25:36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
Mat 25:37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee hungry, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
Mat 25:38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
Mat 25:39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
Mat 25:40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

I do not see where these verses have anything to do with doing good things in order to go to heaven. He was just telling His sheep things that they did not even realize they had done.

quote:
John 3:18 (KJS) He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

This verse says if you believe your are not condemned, if you do not you are condemned already.

quote:
Ephe 2:8 (KJS) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

These verse's say you are saved by grace not by your works.

So you saying that Christians are doing good works to get to heaven is a misrepresentation of the facts.

I do good works because I choose to do them, because it is the right thing to do. I hope you do the same.

Now I will agree that there are many religions that do teach that you have to do good works to go to heaven.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 73 by ringo, posted 03-27-2007 12:53 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 89 by anastasia, posted 03-27-2007 6:17 PM ICANT has responded
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ICANT
Member
Posts: 6269
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 94 of 125 (391862)
03-27-2007 7:32 PM
Reply to: Message 89 by anastasia
03-27-2007 6:17 PM


Re: Performance
Do you have to be moral to get to heaven?

anastasia read what I say carefully without jumping to conclusions.

I do not believe you have to be good, bad, indifferent or moral to go to heaven.

Jesus said ye must be born again. That is necessary to go to heaven.

quote:
Ephe 2:10 (KJV) For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

I believe that a person who has been born from above will live an exemplary life. I believe they will have very high morals. I believe they will do many good works. If they do not, then I question if they have truly trusted in Christ and been born again.
But that is between them and God.

I do not believe Christians have a monopoly on doing good things.
I know many Atheist, Muslims and Buddhist, that do many good things.
Too say my morals are better than those of any of the other posters or anyone else would be very arrogant on my part and not necessarily true.

I am human and sometimes I fail. I just have to keep trying to do what is right. I do things because God did so much for me that I could not do for myself.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 89 by anastasia, posted 03-27-2007 6:17 PM anastasia has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 95 by anastasia, posted 03-27-2007 7:56 PM ICANT has responded
 Message 97 by LinearAq, posted 03-27-2007 8:08 PM ICANT has not yet responded

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6269
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 101 of 125 (391887)
03-27-2007 9:40 PM
Reply to: Message 95 by anastasia
03-27-2007 7:56 PM


Re: Performance
anastasia writes:

So in other words, without works you aren't born again

Please anastasia,

Don't put words in my mouth I mess up enough by myself.

I said "I" question their salvation. Others might not.

anastasia writes:

Well, if we don't need morality

I did not say we did not need morality. I said it was not in the requirements to go to heaven.

Do I believe we should keep the commandments Jesus gave yes. The first commandment, He said love the Lord thy God with all your body, mind, and soul. The second was to love thy neighbor as thyself.

Now I don't know about anybody else but I love myself.
I try to make sure I have food and the necessitys of life. I do not have much of the material things of this world. Because I have shared everything I have ever had in this life with those around me that did not have. These things I have done not in order to gain Gods favor but because Jesus did so much for me.

LinearAq writes:

if he chooses to do so, he is more moral than an athiest?

I hope my previous statement you ignored in Message 94 is sufficient.

ICANT writes:

I do not believe Christians have a monopoly on doing good things.
I know many Atheist, Muslims and Buddhist, that do many good things.
Too say my morals are better than those of any of the other posters or anyone else would be very arrogant on my part and not necessarily true.

LinearAq writes:

What does THAT mean and how do I know if it happened to me?

Study Message 86

Edited by AdminPD, : Included Msg Link

Edited by AdminPD, : Another Msg Link


This message is a reply to:
 Message 95 by anastasia, posted 03-27-2007 7:56 PM anastasia has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 102 by anastasia, posted 03-27-2007 10:01 PM ICANT has responded

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6269
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 103 of 125 (391896)
03-27-2007 10:59 PM
Reply to: Message 102 by anastasia
03-27-2007 10:01 PM


Re: Performance
anastasia writes:

A...they have works and aren't saved

Ehpesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not from you; it is the gift of God.
2:9 It is not from works, so no one may boast.[/qs]

This is what your Bible says.

For by grace you have been saved. (Grace = God's unmerited favor.)

Works has nothing to do with being saved according to your Bible.

B...they have none and you are not sure if they are saved.

Example I have an orange tree and a grapfruit tree in my back yard. I expect to get oranges off the orange tree and grapefruit off the grapefruit tree.

If you tell me you are a born again child of God and you do not have good fruit on the tree yes I would question whether you were saved.

If you told me you were a good Catholic and you did not attend Mass and say your prayers and do all the other things the Catholic Church teaches I would say you were not a good Catholic.

Just as if you were to tell me you have high morals and live like the devil I would not think much of your morals.

Concerning the 10 Commandments they were not suggestions to the nation of Israel.
Concerning the 2 Commandments Jesus gave they are not suggestions for Christians. If you want to be Christ like you have to keep them.

I have posted in other threads that the last 5 commandments given to the nation of Israel if they were our moral standards there would be no problems in the world if everybody would keep them.

I don't think I can go into any greater detail without going too far OT. If you want to pursue this further e-mail me.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 102 by anastasia, posted 03-27-2007 10:01 PM anastasia has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 104 by anastasia, posted 03-27-2007 11:40 PM ICANT has responded

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6269
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 105 of 125 (391927)
03-28-2007 2:21 AM
Reply to: Message 104 by anastasia
03-27-2007 11:40 PM


Re: Required or Desired
Anyway, if these commands are truly commands and not suggestions, what happens if we fail to keep them?

You would lose rewards but not your eternal life.

1Cor 3:15 (KJS) writes:

If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

As I have tried to point out Christians should have high morals we should be able to have higher moral standards than anyone else but that is just not true. We don't because we are human and we still live in this old sinful body we have.

We have been told and rightly so those of our Atheist friends who choose their own moral codes have to get it right the first time as this is all there is.

In the same way God wants his children to love and Honor Him.
He wants us to choose to obey Him He wants us to be the best that we can be. So others can see Him in our life and glorify our Father which is in Heaven. God just wants us to be the best example we can be just because we love him, not because we fear Him. Is that so hard to understand? Coming from your background I suppose that is hard. I attended the 6th grade in a Catholic School.

The big problem is we have so many scoundrels that claim to be Christian who have no morals whatsoever. It is no wonder we get the responses we do here from the other side of the aisle.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 104 by anastasia, posted 03-27-2007 11:40 PM anastasia has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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ICANT
Member
Posts: 6269
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 110 of 125 (392025)
03-28-2007 5:34 PM
Reply to: Message 108 by anastasia
03-28-2007 3:38 PM


Re: Required or Desired
It's just the same old duality if you ask me. We always WANT to follow our own moral standards.

Therein lies the problem.

How do we decide what is moral and what is immoral?

If we all set our own moral standards there can be a big difference.

So if you are going to try to decide who is more moral there would have to be a standardized code to go by.

I probably think many things are immoral that many of you might not have a problem with.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 108 by anastasia, posted 03-28-2007 3:38 PM anastasia has not yet responded

  
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