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Author Topic:   Why is Faith so Important to God?
iceage 
Suspended Member (Idle past 6000 days)
Posts: 1024
From: Pacific Northwest
Joined: 09-08-2003


Message 1 of 88 (431207)
10-29-2007 9:57 PM


Here is a question that popped out of the thread Religion and Chain Letters thread that has gone unaddressed.
Why is the quality of faith or belief in the unseeable so supremely important to God?
A false god or meme-complex requires such blind faith, but the real God?
In Christianity, faith in God is the principle doctrine - all the rest are details. If one believes the NT, faith is the central deciding factor as to where an individual will allegedly spend eternity; eternal bliss or eternal torment. This message is repeated over and over in the NT.
Does it make sense that a being who supposedly deals with the material world (walking in the garden, flood, stopping sun, miracles, etc) would withhold tangible evidence of his existence but yet place supreme value on a specific faith or belief in the unseeable? What is it about faith that God supposedly values above all else?
This critical importance of faith is even more incredulous when one considers the evidence that faith is fickle. There are thousands and thousands of faiths and variations of faiths. Without evidence faith is ungrounded so the evidence would indicate. Material evidence does wonders for unifying a faith. For example, most have faith in gravity and that the sun will rise tomorrow.
Anybody here have an answer to this question? I searched the web for answers or apologetics to this question and have found nothing.
Edited by iceage, : No reason given.

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AdminNem
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Message 2 of 88 (431210)
10-29-2007 10:02 PM


Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.

  
jar
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Posts: 34063
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 4.8


Message 3 of 88 (431213)
10-29-2007 10:10 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by iceage
10-29-2007 9:57 PM


Faith is not important to God
Faith is only for man, it is of no importance to God.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

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Replies to this message:
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subbie
Member (Idle past 1340 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 4 of 88 (431218)
10-29-2007 10:33 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by jar
10-29-2007 10:10 PM


Re: Faith is not important to God
I'd be curious to hear your explanation why not, either based on scripture, reasoning, teaching, or what have you.

Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin
We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

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jar
Member
Posts: 34063
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 4.8


Message 5 of 88 (431221)
10-29-2007 10:45 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by subbie
10-29-2007 10:33 PM


Re: Faith is not important to God
There are many reasons.
Throughout most of the Bible we find examples of God actually sending evidence to convince, Faith is pretty much relegated to faith that God will do what God says She will do, and usually PDQ.
Second, why would God have need of human Faith? Faith is a tool, a comforter of man; it is something we use for our benefit.
Faith is simply a human tool, it is what we can fall back on when physical evidence is missing, but should always be secondary to physical evidence and reason.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

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Brian
Member (Idle past 5045 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 6 of 88 (431269)
10-30-2007 8:37 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by jar
10-29-2007 10:45 PM


Re: Faith is not important to God
Didn't Jesus say that faith is more important than evidence?

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Jon
Inactive Member


Message 7 of 88 (431271)
10-30-2007 8:47 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by Brian
10-30-2007 8:37 AM


Re: Faith is not important to God
Didn't Jesus say that faith is more important than evidence?
Technically, someone else said that Jesus said that.

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pelican
Member (Idle past 5071 days)
Posts: 781
From: australia
Joined: 05-27-2007


Message 8 of 88 (431280)
10-30-2007 9:22 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by iceage
10-29-2007 9:57 PM


what is faith?
We have faith in the unseeable energies but it isn't blind faith. I think blind faith is not faith at all but wishful thinking at best.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by iceage, posted 10-29-2007 9:57 PM iceage has replied

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iceage 
Suspended Member (Idle past 6000 days)
Posts: 1024
From: Pacific Northwest
Joined: 09-08-2003


Message 9 of 88 (431317)
10-30-2007 1:34 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by pelican
10-30-2007 9:22 AM


Why is faith so supremely important to God
Heinrik writes:
We have faith in the unseeable energies but it isn't blind faith. I think blind faith is not faith at all but wishful thinking at best.
"Blind Faith" is a loaded word and really not very concise. I probably should not have used the term.
However "unseeable energies" is even more of a fuzzy nebulous term without meaning or significance. BTW I hear that crystals also have this property of unseeable energies, whatever that means.
Nevertheless, I fully expected my question to be misunderstood. I am not questioning the degree of blindness of your faith.
I am asking very specifically, why would faith be so supremely important to God?
Why would the creator of the universe, value belief in the unperceivable, to such a degree that it supposedly dictates whether you spend eternity in heaven or hell? Then to highlight my incredulity on this point I make the following observations on the problems with faith....
  • Faith is fickle and does not lead to a strong unified belief, precisely because it is not grounded.
  • Faith in the unperceivable is exactly what is required to promote a false god or idea. Is this a coincidence or clue?

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    jar
    Member
    Posts: 34063
    From: Texas!!
    Joined: 04-20-2004
    Member Rating: 4.8


    Message 10 of 88 (431319)
    10-30-2007 1:58 PM
    Reply to: Message 6 by Brian
    10-30-2007 8:37 AM


    Re: Faith is not important to God
    No, he didn't, and you and I have discussed this before. In fact Jesus quite often went out of his way to demonstrate just how much a man could do with Faith.
    Faith is for us, it is a belief in what WE can do, a belief in ourselves and that we can do wonders.

    Aslan is not a Tame Lion

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     Message 6 by Brian, posted 10-30-2007 8:37 AM Brian has replied

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    Brian
    Member (Idle past 5045 days)
    Posts: 4659
    From: Scotland
    Joined: 10-22-2002


    Message 11 of 88 (431320)
    10-30-2007 2:04 PM
    Reply to: Message 10 by jar
    10-30-2007 1:58 PM


    Re: Faith is not important to God
    I dont recall the convo.
    But Jesus said blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed, doesn't this imply that God requires faith on our part to believe in Him?

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    jar
    Member
    Posts: 34063
    From: Texas!!
    Joined: 04-20-2004
    Member Rating: 4.8


    Message 12 of 88 (431322)
    10-30-2007 2:11 PM
    Reply to: Message 11 by Brian
    10-30-2007 2:04 PM


    Re: Faith is not important to God
    No, not at all. That is from the Thomas story, and Jesus went on to actually provide the evidence.
    Faith is for us, for humans. A GOD certainly does not need Faith; it is only us, man, that needs faith as one of our tools.
    Note many other places where faith is mentioned, Peter walking on water so long as he had the Faith that he could, the comment that "All things are possible through Faith" and that "Faith can move mountains."
    Faith is not anti-evidence, it does not mean to abandon the search for what is true, it is something to help humans.

    Aslan is not a Tame Lion

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     Message 11 by Brian, posted 10-30-2007 2:04 PM Brian has replied

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    Brian
    Member (Idle past 5045 days)
    Posts: 4659
    From: Scotland
    Joined: 10-22-2002


    Message 13 of 88 (431323)
    10-30-2007 2:14 PM
    Reply to: Message 12 by jar
    10-30-2007 2:11 PM


    Re: Faith is not important to God
    I must have misread the OP, I thought it was asking why God expects US to have faith.
    Of course God doesnt need faith, God knows everything. He knows who will be saved and who will burn in hell before He creates them.

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     Message 12 by jar, posted 10-30-2007 2:11 PM jar has replied

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    jar
    Member
    Posts: 34063
    From: Texas!!
    Joined: 04-20-2004
    Member Rating: 4.8


    Message 14 of 88 (431324)
    10-30-2007 2:18 PM
    Reply to: Message 13 by Brian
    10-30-2007 2:14 PM


    Re: Faith is not important to God
    Well, the topic title is "Why is Faith so Important to God?" and my point is that Faith is important to us.
    He knows who will be saved and who will burn in hell before He creates them.
    Off topic but also something I comment on regularly.

    Aslan is not a Tame Lion

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    Brian
    Member (Idle past 5045 days)
    Posts: 4659
    From: Scotland
    Joined: 10-22-2002


    Message 15 of 88 (431325)
    10-30-2007 2:21 PM
    Reply to: Message 14 by jar
    10-30-2007 2:18 PM


    Re: Faith is not important to God
    "Why is Faith so Important to God?"
    I interpreted this as 'why is faith (our faith) so important to God', I didnt think for a second it was regrading God havinf faith in anything.

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     Message 14 by jar, posted 10-30-2007 2:18 PM jar has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 17 by jar, posted 10-30-2007 2:27 PM Brian has replied
     Message 20 by iceage, posted 10-30-2007 2:37 PM Brian has not replied

      
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