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Author Topic:   What are the Degrees of Fundamentalism?
docpotato
Member (Idle past 5069 days)
Posts: 334
From: Portland, OR
Joined: 07-18-2003


Message 166 of 229 (332899)
07-18-2006 12:53 PM
Reply to: Message 162 by Faith
07-18-2006 12:49 PM


Re: The laws in question
Yes, witches are now just nice people who appreciate nature, and sorcery is just fun. With that pretty idea we casually allow every kind of demonic thing to influence people and take possession of their minds. Few have any sense of the dangers involved to them from the demonic spirits who are the power behind these things. Perhaps God will give us a revival in which many of them see the truth. In that case I think exorcisms might become necessary.
Why are you waiting for God to give us a revival? God has already told you what to do with these people. So if you encounter someone who deals in witchcraft, do you kill them as is God's decree? Or do you defy Him with your intellect?
Edited by docpotato, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 162 by Faith, posted 07-18-2006 12:49 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 175 by Faith, posted 07-18-2006 1:53 PM docpotato has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 167 of 229 (332900)
07-18-2006 12:57 PM
Reply to: Message 165 by Faith
07-18-2006 12:52 PM


Re: scripture ref
Faith writes:
Only an all-powerful holy God is worthy of trust.
Exactly. And yet, fundies depict a god who kills children because he's mad at the gays next door.

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This message is a reply to:
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ramoss
Member (Idle past 634 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 168 of 229 (332911)
07-18-2006 1:28 PM
Reply to: Message 152 by Faith
07-18-2006 12:03 PM


Fundamentalist binary
Thank you Faith, for providing such an excellent example of fundamentalist binary thinking, and some of the implications.
The binary thinking 'right/wrong', 'True/false', 'saved/damned'. The implcations is the notion that is the fundamentalist is 'right', and everyone who disagrees is 'wrong.
Noticed the implied contempt of 'liberal thinking, and the refusal to get into a dialog with those that have different interpretations. There also is the stated concept that 'those who see god differently than I do deny scripture' attitude.
This inflexibilty is what drives the various degree's of fundamentalism. The more inflexible, and 'me vs world' attitude, the more 'fundamentalist' the individual.
I think people will notice this pattern amoung the more conservative christians on the board. The ones that are willing to engage in dialog
and dicuss things tend to lose that 'binary thinking/right-wrong' mindset.

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ramoss
Member (Idle past 634 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 169 of 229 (332913)
07-18-2006 1:32 PM
Reply to: Message 157 by Faith
07-18-2006 12:24 PM


Re: scripture ref
Personally, I don't think the bible says what you think it says.
You are not putting your trust in God, or in the bible, but rather you are putting trust in your infallibility and how your put your concepts into the bible.

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ramoss
Member (Idle past 634 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 170 of 229 (332914)
07-18-2006 1:34 PM
Reply to: Message 159 by docpotato
07-18-2006 12:29 PM


Re: The laws in question
Of course, 'witch' is a poor translation.
It is refering to someone who 'Deals with the spirits of the dead'. Such people would be those who channel, and those folks on the sci-fi channel that 'talk to the dead'.. those are the kinds of people they are talking about (John Edwards was one of them).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 159 by docpotato, posted 07-18-2006 12:29 PM docpotato has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 171 by docpotato, posted 07-18-2006 1:45 PM ramoss has replied
 Message 172 by Faith, posted 07-18-2006 1:47 PM ramoss has replied

  
docpotato
Member (Idle past 5069 days)
Posts: 334
From: Portland, OR
Joined: 07-18-2003


Message 171 of 229 (332916)
07-18-2006 1:45 PM
Reply to: Message 170 by ramoss
07-18-2006 1:34 PM


Re: The laws in question
Of course, 'witch' is a poor translation.
No doubt.
It is refering to someone who 'Deals with the spirits of the dead'. Such people would be those who channel, and those folks on the sci-fi channel that 'talk to the dead'..
Wouldn't that, by necessity, include Christians who pray to Jesus? Now I'm confused.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 170 by ramoss, posted 07-18-2006 1:34 PM ramoss has replied

Replies to this message:
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 Message 177 by Faith, posted 07-18-2006 1:54 PM docpotato has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1466 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 172 of 229 (332917)
07-18-2006 1:47 PM
Reply to: Message 170 by ramoss
07-18-2006 1:34 PM


Re: The laws in question
It is refering to someone who 'Deals with the spirits of the dead'. Such people would be those who channel, and those folks on the sci-fi channel that 'talk to the dead'.. those are the kinds of people they are talking about (John Edwards was one of them).
"Witch" covers the territory well enough. It's all about dealings with demons. The spirits of the dead do not communicate with the living. It is demonic impersonations of people that communicate, when it's real and not a fraud of course.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 170 by ramoss, posted 07-18-2006 1:34 PM ramoss has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 176 by ramoss, posted 07-18-2006 1:53 PM Faith has replied

  
ramoss
Member (Idle past 634 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 173 of 229 (332919)
07-18-2006 1:49 PM
Reply to: Message 160 by jar
07-18-2006 12:31 PM


Re: throw back to the Dark ages.
Well, I have to point out Isaiah 45:7
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
So, according to the writer of second part of isaiah, god did create evil. However, that is a big difference between the concept that GOd created all things (including the opportunity for man to do wrong), and the sending of divine retribution.
As for blasphemy, one man's blasphemy is another man's theology. To say one is right and the other is wrong you have to be God.. (and it doesn't matter one bit if God doesn't exist). I certainly don't think the concept of 'divine retribution' is very meaningful. On the other hand, I am not 'God' and neither are you or faith, (unless you want to take the quote attributed to Jesus of 'you are all gods' literally).

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ramoss
Member (Idle past 634 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 174 of 229 (332920)
07-18-2006 1:51 PM
Reply to: Message 171 by docpotato
07-18-2006 1:45 PM


Re: The laws in question
Well, technically, the Christians believe that Jesus is risen from the dead. So , in their mind, they are not doing so.
However, that is a very good point.

This message is a reply to:
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1466 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 175 of 229 (332921)
07-18-2006 1:53 PM
Reply to: Message 166 by docpotato
07-18-2006 12:53 PM


Re: The laws in question
Why don't you follow the argument sometime, hm? Lot said about why we don't kill witches any more if you'd been paying attention.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 166 by docpotato, posted 07-18-2006 12:53 PM docpotato has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 179 by docpotato, posted 07-18-2006 2:01 PM Faith has replied

  
ramoss
Member (Idle past 634 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 176 of 229 (332922)
07-18-2006 1:53 PM
Reply to: Message 172 by Faith
07-18-2006 1:47 PM


Re: The laws in question
"Witch" covers the territory well enough. It's all about dealings with demons. The spirits of the dead do not communicate with the living. It is demonic impersonations of people that communicate, when it's real and not a fraud of course.
That is , again, an interpretation of the passage that I do not feel is justified by the words in the passage. You are reading a lot of bias INTO the passage rather than reading what the passages actually says.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 172 by Faith, posted 07-18-2006 1:47 PM Faith has replied

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 Message 178 by Faith, posted 07-18-2006 1:56 PM ramoss has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1466 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 177 of 229 (332923)
07-18-2006 1:54 PM
Reply to: Message 171 by docpotato
07-18-2006 1:45 PM


Re: The laws in question
Jesus is alive forevermore, not dead.

This message is a reply to:
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1466 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 178 of 229 (332926)
07-18-2006 1:56 PM
Reply to: Message 176 by ramoss
07-18-2006 1:53 PM


Re: The laws in question
When you know the supernatural is divided between God's kingdom and Satan's kingdom, there is no doubt that the various occultic practices are all in the latter, and to call it all "witchcraft" will suffice.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
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docpotato
Member (Idle past 5069 days)
Posts: 334
From: Portland, OR
Joined: 07-18-2003


Message 179 of 229 (332927)
07-18-2006 2:01 PM
Reply to: Message 175 by Faith
07-18-2006 1:53 PM


Re: The laws in question
As far as I can see, you've hemmed and hawed about not being sure whether these rules apply outside of a theocracy.
Sounds like trusting your own intellect kind-of talk to me.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 175 by Faith, posted 07-18-2006 1:53 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1466 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 180 of 229 (332928)
07-18-2006 2:01 PM
Reply to: Message 173 by ramoss
07-18-2006 1:49 PM


Re: throw back to the Dark ages.
The word "evil" in Isaiah 45:7 does not mean sin and badness, it means calamity and disaster. It is an archaic use of the word. The evils that befall us all sort of thing. At least one other translation as I recall has "calamity" there. I can't access Blue Letter Bible for some reason to check that out right now. But that is how I have always read that verse. It is therefore directly saying that it is God who brings all the disasters on the world.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 173 by ramoss, posted 07-18-2006 1:49 PM ramoss has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 184 by ramoss, posted 07-18-2006 2:50 PM Faith has replied
 Message 193 by Coragyps, posted 07-19-2006 10:02 AM Faith has not replied

  
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