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Author Topic:   What are the Degrees of Fundamentalism?
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 181 of 229 (332931)
07-18-2006 2:03 PM
Reply to: Message 179 by docpotato
07-18-2006 2:01 PM


Re: The laws in question
I was very clear that ONLY in a theocracy would it make sense to apply that command, but I was not completely sure about whether it would apply even in that case now that Jesus has come.
But we aren't a theocracy and there is NO doubt in my mind that there's no way to apply such a law in this case.
{Edit: Besides, your idea that any individual could just go kill witches is false. The context of the laws in the Bible was the legally constituted justice system of Israel.}
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 179 by docpotato, posted 07-18-2006 2:01 PM docpotato has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 182 by ringo, posted 07-18-2006 2:40 PM Faith has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 182 of 229 (332941)
07-18-2006 2:40 PM
Reply to: Message 181 by Faith
07-18-2006 2:03 PM


Re: The laws in question
Faith writes:
The context of the laws in the Bible was the legally constituted justice system of Israel.
You quoted, "Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed", as a justification for capital punishment. But in Noah's time there was no Israel, nor any theocracy. There were only individuals to uphold the "law".

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This message is a reply to:
 Message 181 by Faith, posted 07-18-2006 2:03 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 183 by Faith, posted 07-18-2006 2:42 PM ringo has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 183 of 229 (332943)
07-18-2006 2:42 PM
Reply to: Message 182 by ringo
07-18-2006 2:40 PM


Re: The laws in question
There was always community. And the laws that God later gave Israel were simply codifications of what was already known by the righteous, which included the restraints of determining evidence and seeking the safety of many counselors.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 182 by ringo, posted 07-18-2006 2:40 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 186 by ringo, posted 07-18-2006 2:57 PM Faith has replied

  
ramoss
Member (Idle past 612 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 184 of 229 (332945)
07-18-2006 2:50 PM
Reply to: Message 180 by Faith
07-18-2006 2:01 PM


Re: throw back to the Dark ages.
This is one case where not understanding the hebrew can show errors in
thinking.
THe term 'Evil' in Isaiah 45:7 is the exact term that is used in Genesis for the 'tree of knowledge of good and evil'.
Again, your interpretation is reading into the words, rather than reading the words that are written.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 180 by Faith, posted 07-18-2006 2:01 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 185 by Faith, posted 07-18-2006 2:54 PM ramoss has replied
 Message 227 by Faith, posted 07-23-2006 9:59 AM ramoss has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 185 of 229 (332949)
07-18-2006 2:54 PM
Reply to: Message 184 by ramoss
07-18-2006 2:50 PM


Re: throw back to the Dark ages.
I trust the official translators over an amateur student of Hebrew.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 184 by ramoss, posted 07-18-2006 2:50 PM ramoss has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 187 by ramoss, posted 07-18-2006 2:57 PM Faith has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 186 of 229 (332951)
07-18-2006 2:57 PM
Reply to: Message 183 by Faith
07-18-2006 2:42 PM


Re: The laws in question
Faith writes:
There was always community.
And there is community now, so the same should apply.
... the restraints of determining evidence and seeking the safety of many counselors.
Which we do not have today, so capital punishment should not apply.
(But we have another thread on selective application of the law, don't we?)

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Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC

This message is a reply to:
 Message 183 by Faith, posted 07-18-2006 2:42 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 189 by Faith, posted 07-18-2006 4:21 PM ringo has not replied

  
ramoss
Member (Idle past 612 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 187 of 229 (332952)
07-18-2006 2:57 PM
Reply to: Message 185 by Faith
07-18-2006 2:54 PM


Re: throw back to the Dark ages.
RIGHT.
So, rabbi's are 'amature steudent's of hebrew'. I get it.
The Jewish people don't know their own scripture, they have to go ask an evangalistic Christian.
The term used in Genesis 2;9, in Isaiah 7:15, and in Isaiah 45:7 all is the word 'ra'. It means 'moral evil'. If you are honest, you can use the information I provided to confirm what I said is accurate. Somehow, I don't think that will happen.
Edited by ramoss, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 185 by Faith, posted 07-18-2006 2:54 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 188 by Faith, posted 07-18-2006 4:14 PM ramoss has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 188 of 229 (332972)
07-18-2006 4:14 PM
Reply to: Message 187 by ramoss
07-18-2006 2:57 PM


Re: throw back to the Dark ages.
'Twas you who said the Hebrew made the difference. You quoted no rabbis. And any Bible translater has to know Hebrew quite well. And yes, the rabbis half the time haven't a clue about their own scripture. Totally in the dark.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 187 by ramoss, posted 07-18-2006 2:57 PM ramoss has replied

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 189 of 229 (332977)
07-18-2006 4:21 PM
Reply to: Message 186 by ringo
07-18-2006 2:57 PM


Re: The laws in question
Yes, we have community now and more than community, we have a justice system, and yes of course the same should apply. We should have the death penalty for murder.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 186 by ringo, posted 07-18-2006 2:57 PM ringo has not replied

  
ramoss
Member (Idle past 612 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 190 of 229 (332992)
07-18-2006 4:38 PM
Reply to: Message 188 by Faith
07-18-2006 4:14 PM


Re: throw back to the Dark ages.
Shrug. You didn't quote anybody either.
You are a good example of the binary 'I AM TOTALLYI RIGHT AND ANYBODY WHO DISAGREES WITH ME IS DENYING SCRIPTURE' mentality of the fundamentalist.. but that is just about it.

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 Message 188 by Faith, posted 07-18-2006 4:14 PM Faith has not replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 415 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 191 of 229 (333209)
07-19-2006 6:05 AM
Reply to: Message 154 by Faith
07-18-2006 12:15 PM


Re: God's judgment
Ever hear of John Paul Jackson?
He predicted Katrina, others have been shown by God about destruction. But mabye those messages are for us alone, and to be told before it happens. After the fact is pretty much pointless, and ignored by unbelievers.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 154 by Faith, posted 07-18-2006 12:15 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 194 by jar, posted 07-19-2006 10:03 AM riVeRraT has replied
 Message 195 by Faith, posted 07-19-2006 1:53 PM riVeRraT has replied

  
sidelined
Member (Idle past 5908 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 192 of 229 (333253)
07-19-2006 9:34 AM
Reply to: Message 161 by Faith
07-18-2006 12:42 PM


Re: scripture ref
Faith
Yet the men who write the bible, because you agree with their point of view, are exempt from the fallibility of intellect you claim all men have.Refering back to a point you made here,
There's no conflict to one who submits to the Bible as written with trust in the God who wrote it.
there is, of course, no conflict because you accept without question because it resonates with your feelings and your beliefs. What you accept outright by submission by definition requires that you not question its standards nor dispute its findings. Here we have an example of you failing to realize that you consider yourself exempt from the fallibility of error also, for no other reason than you consider the bible and God to be correct.
This is a poor sort of a standard for belief in my eyes.
Edited by sidelined, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 161 by Faith, posted 07-18-2006 12:42 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 196 by Faith, posted 07-19-2006 1:58 PM sidelined has replied

  
Coragyps
Member (Idle past 734 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 193 of 229 (333260)
07-19-2006 10:02 AM
Reply to: Message 180 by Faith
07-18-2006 2:01 PM


Re: throw back to the Dark ages.
it is therefore directly saying that it is God who brings all the disasters on the world.
He really is a spiteful bastard, isn't he?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 180 by Faith, posted 07-18-2006 2:01 PM Faith has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 194 of 229 (333261)
07-19-2006 10:03 AM
Reply to: Message 191 by riVeRraT
07-19-2006 6:05 AM


Re: God's judgment
Ever hear of John Paul Jackson?
He predicted Katrina, others have been shown by God about destruction. But mabye those messages are for us alone, and to be told before it happens. After the fact is pretty much pointless, and ignored by unbelievers.
Come on, get serious.
The important part is not some vague after the fact claim that something someone said was a prophecy, but rather the hard cold scientific models that showed Katrina was not just likely but damn near certain.
You live by your prophets, I'll take the National Weather Service anyday.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 191 by riVeRraT, posted 07-19-2006 6:05 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 202 by riVeRraT, posted 07-20-2006 8:16 AM jar has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 195 of 229 (333335)
07-19-2006 1:53 PM
Reply to: Message 191 by riVeRraT
07-19-2006 6:05 AM


Re: God's judgment
He predicted Katrina, others have been shown by God about destruction. But mabye those messages are for us alone, and to be told before it happens. After the fact is pretty much pointless, and ignored by unbelievers.
"Then they shall know that I am the LORD, when I have made the land a desolation for all the abominations that they have committed." Ezekiel 33:29.
Edit:
Who shall know? Those who now don't know of course. Not believers.
Know what? "That I am the LORD." Fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom.
When will they know this? AFTER God has made the land a desolation.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 191 by riVeRraT, posted 07-19-2006 6:05 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 203 by riVeRraT, posted 07-20-2006 8:30 AM Faith has replied

  
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