A Model of the Trinity--in a Basketball Arena?

He is still God, jar, but He did not act from His attributes as God while a man. You are right that He lived and died a human being in order to be our representative, but "although He was found in form as God, He did not count it a thing to be held onto, but humbled Himself and became a man..."

Right, GOD became man. Simply man. During Jesus lifetime here on earth he was only human.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Hi dancer,first off some friendly advice: it's good practice not to reply to your own posts, otherwise you risk having a dialogue with yourself now on with the beef: Those who are convinced can claim whatever they want. It doesn't change the fact that they haven't *proven* anything. I could claim I am the king of Siam. I can't *prove* I am, though. that's fine, but bear in mind that the burden of proof lies with the claimant. YOU made the claim that the Synods proved the Heretics wrong, YOU have to show how they proved them wrong.If you cannot do that, I will still respect your opinion but will not be able to take it seriously. why would God need a sacrifice to save us from the rules He created ? Is God cruel ? is God dumb? but the notion that God sacrificed Himself (but not really, because He's not dead), in order to satisfy His own rules and stop Himself from condemning us to hell DOES make sense to you ?! You believe in a God who can only show his love by having himself killed on a cross ?
This is a very limited God you got there dancer. He would have succeeded in giving us his message. As he did!

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"In life, you have to face that some days you'll be the pigeon and some days you'll be the statue."

Jar, are you saying you believe Jesus (or at least the being known on earth as Jesus) was God before the Incarnation, stopped being God while being human, and then (presumably) went back to being God either at or after the Resurrection?It's an interesting point of view. I don't know how well it would fly in a Protestant "fundamentalist" or Roman Catholic (or even Eastern Orthodox) church, but that doesn't mean it's not without merit.

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Never overestimate the intelligence of someone who thinks you're wrong.

Are you forgetting about the Resurrection?

Yes, that's a pretty close summary. Actually it's pretty completely accepted, nothing new. It's been a basic tenet of Christianity right from the beginning. Consider the Nicene Creed. "And was made man".AbE:The one thing you left out is the concept of the Trinity, the three in one. The Nicene Creed also covers that relationship.This message has been edited by jar, 04-08-2006 01:27 PM

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Well, if Jesus was God, He couldn't stay dead, could He? He had to rise from the dead.But that has nothing to do with salvation. Salvation is in the message that He brought.This message has been edited by Ringo, 2006-04-08 12:27 PM

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Can you please give us the entire passage of the Nicene Creed? I am aware of what it says but you seem to have missed some points. Please, include it all.

So He was a God. Or are you implying that He changed from one nature to another?

Gladly. The Nicene Creed is short so I'll include the whole thing. Notice that it deals with the Trinity. But it also shows that Jesus death is not the only thing for the forgiveness of our sins, Baptism takes care of that.Concentrating on Jesus death, believing that he was GOD while living here on earth not only contradicts the basics of Christian belief, it makes his life meaningless.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

I'm not implying anything. Jesus was a man, therefore he had to die. Simple.The where and when and how and why of His death are not important.

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For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered death and was buried.
On the third day he rose again
in accordance with the Scriptures;
he ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead,
and his kingdom will have no end.I never meant to underestimate the message of Jesus' life. It is just that if He had not sacrificed himself AND resurrected, we could not be saved from death. His life would be an excellent example of virtue but we would not be saved. We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father and the Son.
I could not neglect to point out that the initial version (Eastern version) is the following:
We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father.But anyway, let's not get to that now.

quote:

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Notice that it deals with the Trinity. But it also shows that Jesus death is not the only thing for the forgiveness of our sins, Baptism takes care of that.

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The suffering and the Resurrection are important for the forgiveness of our sins, you admit it. It is an unbelievable act of love to have a God accepting to suffer and die like a human while He has the power to prevent all that pain from taking place.
I have a question: Do you believe that the baptism takes away one's future sins?

Well, are you kidding me? Whenever it suits you He is a God?

But Jesus, as human, did NOT have the power to do that. If you read the Bible, even the miracles were done by GOD acting through Jesus. And if you notice, the parts you reference come after "and was made man".Jesus was but human while living on earth. No. I've covered that is some detail in the thread, Message 1 and it would be way off topic to pursue that subject here.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

According to the OP, we can think of the Trinity as different "satellite" scoreboards - one in the center, one at each end, etc. But they are all the same scoreboard containing the same information.God is always God.At one time, He became a man.When He was a man, He was mortal - He died. Where He died and when He died and how He died and why He died are no more important than the where-when-how-why of any other man's death.What made Him a special Man was His life and the message He brought - that we are forgiven.

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