this is precisely where i'm at right now, and precisely why i'm having a spiritual but not religious wedding. i don't want to make a promise to a god i still believe in but am not sure i like all that much.
after 21 years of being a christian, i've been afraid to read the whole bible. and now that i've committed to it, i'm terrified. (btw sorry everyone for skipping out on exodus. maybe we'll get to it next month. i've got comps i'm reading for.)
i had a conversation with my mom about (for want of a better word) zombification in regards to why god commanded the anihilation of whole groups. if someone suffers from a physical plague (she included social, but i refuse to), there are several step of how to deal with it in digression by ability.
1. you cure it. 2. you treat it. 3. you isolate it. 4. you sterilize the people so they can't spread it. 5. you kill them. if a wound rots the arm you must cut it off. but only if you couldn't treat the infection. but there's no evidence of a physical plague and i refuse to accept that it's okay to take the same steps for a social plague.
and of course my officiant was quibbling over god's gender. ridiculous bullshit. people who have issue with gender need to think bigger.
If you had to choose between God or truth, which would you choose?
neither. i have always tried to choose right. this seems to be supported by neither right now. neither god nor science can tell me how to treat people and how to treat their ills. i understand this is not the realm of science. but for me, that is my need, these are my questions. science has no answers for me anymore because i'm not asking those questions. i grew up. where we came from doesn't matter. it's where we're sending ourselves.
Why did you automatically use 'science' as a synonym for truth?
i didn't. god and science are the assumed odds here. or rather god and not god. but not god depends on science, so there you go.
Isn't it fair to say you see truth of some sort in 'right'? A truth you believe science and religion miss?
yes. i suppose. but right doesn't depend on the origins of the universe or the presence or absence of the divine, so it's really not part of this discussion.
and i wasn't discussing religion. :p religion is crap. we have texts and we potentially have entity(ies). the way other people respond to it can help me understand how i respond to it, but it does not determine my relationship to it.
not really. everyone's knowledge is equally biased by their language, perception, and experience. there's really no reason to trust anyone else on something without solid, clear evidence more than you trust yourself.
of course, one would assume that this particular question would involve such evidence, but i don't count on it.
Basically, just that you can be an ex-Christian and an ex-believer; that the fact that you are not those things now doesn't invalidate the fact that you were those things, back then.
absolutely. but i'd argue that it's also possible to be an ex-atheist and an ex-unbeliever and that the fact that you are not those things now doesn't invalidate the fact that you were those things, back then.
the problem is that your argument here is to decry those who say that your experience isn't valuable because you can't understand them and that you are intellectually or spiritually inferior because you fail to be what they are, and at the same time you scream at them because their experience isn't valuable because they can't understand you and that they are intellectually or spiritually inferior because they fail to be what you are.
it's an untenable and wretched position, this "i'm right and you suck because you don't agree with me" position, no matter what side it's fought from.
i'm really just concerned because i understand what your goal is here. it's to release people from the prison you feel they've created for themselves. but it really doesn't help you to say the same argument back. if everyone sucks for not agreeing with everyone else, i want nothing to do with any of it, and i'm sure i'm not the only one. saying i suck and i should stop sucking isn't going to make me agree with you. it's going to drive me further away. this is what faith never got and what you seem inable to hear. but that doesn't surprise me. it's a common failing of humanity and our self-righteousness.