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EvC Forum ⇒ Social and Religious Issues ⇒ Faith and Belief ⇒

People - I /was/ a Christian

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Author Topic:   People - I /was/ a Christian
DrJones*
Member
Posts: 2285
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 7.3

DrJones* Posts Only
Message 301 of 307 (425573)
10-02-2007 7:03 PM 		Reply to: Message 300 by CTD
10-02-2007 6:54 PM

Re: A few questions
There's no free will in that.
Where's the free will in god removing an person's ability to beleive in him?
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Live every week like it's Shark Week!
Just a monkey in a long line of kings.
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist!
*not an actual doctor
This message is a reply to:
 Message 300 by CTD, posted 10-02-2007 6:54 PM CTD has not replied
iceage 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5935 days)
Posts: 1024
From: Pacific Northwest
Joined: 09-08-2003

iceage Posts Only
Message 302 of 307 (425580)
10-02-2007 8:11 PM 		Reply to: Message 300 by CTD
10-02-2007 6:54 PM

Re: A few questions
CTD writes:
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You're not interested in truth.
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That's disingenuous...
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CTD writes:
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The Bible doesn't say God is going to just up & "make some believe" He or His salvation aren't real.
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Sure does...
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Romans 9:21 writes:
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Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
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You then further twist....
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ctd writes:
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You maintain that He should practice psychological manipulation to such an extent that He gets a positive result in every single case. There's no free will in that. It's just an inefficient method of manufacturing zombies.
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Disingenuous again. That is not what LinearAg said. He said
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la writes:
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1. How is convincing someone of the value in serving God considered twisting their arm or making them robots?
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2. What aspect of God providing strong unambiguous evidence of His reality to the world negates our free will?
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Providing strong unambiguous evidence is not "psychological manipulation".
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The whole free-will argument for the justification of hell etc is rubbish. That is, the argument that God had to give us free-will so that our love genuine. One can still have free-will and still be designed to have a strong propensity to obey and understand God. My dog is genetically wired to obey his master and to be a loyal companion. Does that fact somehow negate or minimize the value of his love and loyalty? No.
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LinearAG writes:
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First, you have not shown that I have turned away from the love of truth. Interestingly, many seekers of truth don't come to the same conclusion about God that you do, despite their sincerity in the quest. I am one of those.
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CTD writes:
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Talk is cheap. You need to start behaving like a sincere seeker of truth.
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You replies are cheap and arrogant.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 300 by CTD, posted 10-02-2007 6:54 PM CTD has replied
Replies to this message:
 Message 303 by CTD, posted 10-02-2007 8:24 PM iceage has replied
CTD
Member (Idle past 5890 days)
Posts: 253
Joined: 03-11-2007

CTD Posts Only
Message 303 of 307 (425585)
10-02-2007 8:24 PM 		Reply to: Message 302 by iceage
10-02-2007 8:11 PM

Re: A few questions
iceage
Disingenuous again. That is not what LinearAg said.
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I cut & pasted what he said right out of post 294.
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Thanks for clarifying your intentions, BTW.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 302 by iceage, posted 10-02-2007 8:11 PM iceage has replied
Replies to this message:
 Message 304 by iceage, posted 10-02-2007 8:59 PM CTD has replied
iceage 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5935 days)
Posts: 1024
From: Pacific Northwest
Joined: 09-08-2003

iceage Posts Only
Message 304 of 307 (425589)
10-02-2007 8:59 PM 		Reply to: Message 303 by CTD
10-02-2007 8:24 PM

Re: A few questions
Oh... show me where he said "psychological manipulation".
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He further clarified
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LinearAg writes:
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1. How is convincing someone of the value in serving God considered twisting their arm or making them robots?
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2. What aspect of God providing strong unambiguous evidence of His reality to the world negates our free will?
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But you twisted by claiming "psychological manipulation". Cheap...
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You are being a wee bit condescending (if not arrogant) by assuming LinearAg's "love of the truth" is cheap compared to your own and he needs to start being sincere.
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LinearAg writes:
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First, you have not shown that I have turned away from the love of truth. Interestingly, many seekers of truth don't come to the same conclusion about God that you do, despite their sincerity in the quest. I am one of those.
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CTD writes:
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Talk is cheap. You need to start behaving like a sincere seeker of truth.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 303 by CTD, posted 10-02-2007 8:24 PM CTD has replied
Replies to this message:
 Message 305 by CTD, posted 10-03-2007 1:41 AM iceage has replied
CTD
Member (Idle past 5890 days)
Posts: 253
Joined: 03-11-2007

CTD Posts Only
Message 305 of 307 (425597)
10-03-2007 1:41 AM 		Reply to: Message 304 by iceage
10-02-2007 8:59 PM

Re: A few questions
iceage
You are being a wee bit condescending (if not arrogant) by assuming LinearAg's "love of the truth" is cheap compared to your own and he needs to start being sincere.
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You saw what happened. He poses a question. In order for the question to have any meaning, God must exist in that context. Then he lets on that he thinks those who believe God are chumps.
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In any context where God is real, the chumps aren't the ones who believe Him. But he's gotta take cheap shots.
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He can't even manage to talk the talk.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 304 by iceage, posted 10-02-2007 8:59 PM iceage has replied
Replies to this message:
 Message 306 by iceage, posted 10-03-2007 2:13 AM CTD has not replied
iceage 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5935 days)
Posts: 1024
From: Pacific Northwest
Joined: 09-08-2003

iceage Posts Only
Message 306 of 307 (425598)
10-03-2007 2:13 AM 		Reply to: Message 305 by CTD
10-03-2007 1:41 AM

Re: A few questions
CTD writes:
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You saw what happened.
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Sure did. You are out of line.
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First you created a straw man by twisted his meaning (ie translated strong unambiguous evidence -> psychological manipulation) which he even went through the trouble to clarify.
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Second he is just questioning your theology and did not take cheap shoots or call you a chump - you did if you reread your own posts.
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CTD writes:
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In any context where God is real, the chumps aren't the ones who believe Him
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Yes and if context is the God of Islam or Judaism you are gonna pay dearly for your idolatry.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 305 by CTD, posted 10-03-2007 1:41 AM CTD has not replied
Adminnemooseus
Administrator
Posts: 3974
Joined: 09-26-2002

Adminnemooseus Posts Only
Message 307 of 307 (425599)
10-03-2007 2:19 AM

Another topic crashes (no pun intended) to a dubius ending
300+ messages - Closing time.
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Adminnemooseus
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New Members should start HERE to get an understanding of what makes great posts.
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Comments on moderation procedures (or wish to respond to admin messages)? - Go to:
General discussion of moderation procedures
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Considerations of topic promotions from the "Proposed New Topics" forum
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Other useful links:
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Forum Guidelines, [thread=-19,-112], [thread=-17,-45], [thread=-19,-337], [thread=-14,-1073]
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Admin writes:
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It really helps moderators figure out if a topic is disintegrating because of general misbehavior versus someone in particular if the originally non-misbehaving members kept it that way. When everyone is prickly and argumentative and off-topic and personal then it's just too difficult to tell. We have neither infinite time to untie the Gordian knot, nor the wisdom of Solomon.
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There used to be a comedian who presented his ideas for a better world, and one of them was to arm everyone on the highway with little rubber dart guns. Every time you see a driver doing something stupid, you fire a little dart at his car. When a state trooper sees someone driving down the highway with a bunch of darts all over his car he pulls him over for being an idiot.
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Please make it easy to tell you apart from the idiots. Source
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