The Literal Genesis Account of Creation

Empty assertion.I have shown that the heavens were created in Genesis 1:6-8. Therefore Genesis 1:1 must refer to that event. Your "nuh-uh" doesn't change the text. The text doesn't say that. And yet "in the day" didn't mean "the very same day" when God told Adam he would die if he ate the fruit? No you're not. I've quoted the words and all you said was "nuh-uh". You've shredded the words and rearranged them to fit your fairy tale. And Genesis 1:6-8 shows clearly that the heavens weren't created until Day 2, so Genesis 1:1 is an introduction, not an event. It doesn't say that. When God created man in Genesis 2:18, that couldn't have been any earlier than Day 6.We've been through your whole "day" nonsense before. You can't hang billions of years on one usage of the word "day" and then claim that Adam doesn't mean Adam.Anybody who reads Genesis can see what it really says and that it has no resemblance to your rubbish.

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jar posted: and ICANT replied

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jar will you agree that there are 2 myths according to jar in Genesis chapter 1 through Genesis chapter 4?

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One of those myths starting at Genesis 1:2 through Genesis 2:3.

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The other beginning at Genesis 2:4 through Genesis 4:26.

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What does that have to do with the post you are replying to or the fact that the story in Genesis 1 is literally wrong, false.The younger creation myth actually starts at Genesis 1:1 and runs through the middle of 2:4.The older creation myth begins at the middle of Genesis 2:4 and runs through Genesis 2:20.The older myth, found in Genesis 2 actually seems to be composed of two or more oral traditions.The two tales are mutually exclusive, contradict each other, and even when considered separately, are factually wrong.They are simply two different traditions trying to explain relationships. As I pointed out most recently in Message 224:"The tales in Genesis are very important. In poetic and allegorical language they speak to us about relationships. The younger tale found in Genesis 1 we see a transcendent God, but one that is aloof, separate from what is Created. It also explains the week, and why we take one day off.The older tale that begins midway through Genesis 2:4 presents a totally different God, a personal God, somewhat bumbling and a tinkerer, but approachable. It is a "Just So Story" explaining why we fear snakes, why childbirth for humans seems more difficult than for the other animals, why we have to work for a living instead of simply foraging.But these are tales of relationships, God's relationship with Man, Man's relationship with God, and man's relationship with his fellow man and the world we live in. Trying to force fit them into into some factual context is to begin the very journey with a wrong turn, to miss the whole point of what is being said."The Creation is simply a plot device, a method to allow the authors of those tales to talk about what is important, the Relationships.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This level of reasoning is completely benign. I would not share in your determination to argue out your beliefs. But what you are trying to imply, willingly demonstrates your limitations in accurately evaluating the scriptures in question. Having said this, let it be known that in my books, you are fully entitled to your own needs regardless of how outstanding they may seem. However, if we are seeking to convincingly critic the scriptures(any) beyond diminished determinations, then you should look into some fundamental training or some other form of applicable education. This could greatly help you identify and avoid embarrassing moments when facing other knowledgeable people on the said matters.However, when all is said and done, it does however provide reliable entertainment. Edited by pbee, : No reason given.

So far, the knowledgeable people on this thread haven't disagreed with me. FYI, "knowledgeable" doesn't mean "sharing the same confirmation bias".A typical tactic of the unknowledgeable is psycho-babbling about the "intentions" of their opponents instead of addressing their arguments.So, any response to the substance of the thread?

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You have said heavens were created in Genesis 1:6-8. I guess I have no choice but to discuss these verses so here goes:Verse 8 says heaven.God divided the waters on earth, from the waters that were created when He made the firmament.The uplifted waters is where our rain comes from.Between those waters and the water on the planet earth is a space called heaven.But beyond those uplifted waters is heaven.There is a heaven beyond the stars. Then God is in another heaven outside the universe. I think that verse says there is at least 3 heavens.

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

The text says: These are the generations (generations=the order of the things that took place) IN THE DAY that the LORD God made THE EARTH AND THE HEAVENS.Those things that took place are listed in the following verses ending at Genesis 4:26.Does Gesesis 1:1 say: In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth? Yes or No with no explanation.Does Genesis 2:4 say: These are the generations...in the day the Lord God made the earth and the heavens? Yes or No with no explanation.

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

No. The firmament ("heaven") separates the waters above from the waters below. The stars are lights mounted on the firmament ("ceiling"), or possibly holes in the firmament that let light shine through. There is nothing in the text about more than one heaven ("firmament"). No. The text says nothing about anything "outside the universe". And Deuteronomy 10:14 doesn't say God is "in" heaven - it says He owns it. Once again, it doesn't matter what you think. We're talking about what the text says. You should be working on your level of reading comprehension instead of your fiction-writing skills.

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As I have shown (and nobody yet has refuted), Genesis 1:1 serves as an introduction to the whole 6-day creation period. Genesis 2:4 serves as an introduction to the second story of the creation period.Two different introductions to two different stories.(By the way, trying to suppress discussion adds nothing to your non-existent argument.)

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But he did die the very same day. Genesis 1:1 was an event.
The verse is simple enough that 3rd graders can understand it. Genesis 2:18 was not when man was created.Generations of things that happened Genesis 1:1 and 2:4-4:22: God did not call the heaven, heaven, nor did He call the earth, earth. These are the things that happened. No trees, or herb's No seed mentioned. This man was formed of the dust of the earth before any living creature or plant. God put the man He had formed in the garden. Trees created after man. Nothing mentioned about seed.Gen. 2:10-Gen. 2:14 tells of the rivers. God gave man a job, dress and keep the garden. These 2 verses tells man he can eat of every tree but 1. Not good for man to be alone. But before God made woman. God formed beasts and fowl and man named them. God took rib. God made woman.Generations of things that happened: Genesis 1:2-2:3 The planet earth was without form (desolate) and void; (no life forms) and it was in darkness. There was no land mass everything was covered with water. There was light but no sun. God divided the light and darkness. Light day, darkness night. Day one. God made a firmament. God divided the waters with the firmament. God called the firmament Heaven. Water gathered to one place, and dry land appeared all in one place. Dry land called earth, water called seas. The seed that was in itself upon the earth was to bring forth vegetation and trees. Grass, herb's, and trees appeared. Third day God made the lights. fourth day. Waters to bring forth every creature that hath life and fowl, God created whales. Fifth day. God made the beast and cattle. God said let us make man in our image. God created man in His own image. Male and female. Man and woman told to be fruitful and multiply and replenish the earth.They could not replenish the earth if it had not been plenished previously.Sixth day. Work was finished, God rested on the seventh day.These are the Literal things that took place in the order that they took place in the KJV Bible.In one heaven & earth same time. The other piece work.
In one the man is formed first. The other man is created last.
Man formed from the dust of earth. The other man created.
In one the woman made last. The other woman created same time as man
Animals, fowl made after man. The other Animals, fowl, fishes Before man.
In one Animals and fowl formed from earth. The other animals and fowl from water.
In one God caused things to grow without seed. The other with seed.There is no way an honest person can read the above statements of fact as recorded in the KJV Bible and conclude these are not 2 completely separate stories. Having nothing to do with each other.There is no way for an honest person to conclude that the 2 stories are one. There are too many different things that are irreconcilable.This could possibly be an explanation.

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

I was not trying to suppress discussion. I was trying to find out if you could read something and give an honest answer and you proved that you are incapable of doing so.

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

You are completly misreading the text.Gen. 2:4 onward is dealing specifically with day six when man was created. This "history" is "before" any plant or herb had GROWN. It is somewhat a parenthetical. (qualifying info)The book of Genisis deals with 10 histories this is the first each one narrows its scope finally culminatinating in the creation of a nation through which God would bless the world - The Messiah.The intro so to speak is Ch 1 - 2:3.It not that difficult.

The only way for a person to live hundreds of years but it still be the same day is if the planet is tidaly locked with the sun (in the way that the moon is with the earth). That would be in total disagreement with science.

Without form does not in any way mean desolate. Desolate means a wasteland, or a place removed of inhabitants or where inhabitants can't live. Desolate would be a better synonym for void, which means emptiness.Formless means without shape or structure. Basically if the earth is without form it is saying that it doesn't exist, at least not 'as the earth'. For example if I'm making a cake and I have all the ingredients in a bowl mixed together I could say that the cake was without form. At this point the cake does not exist, and further work is required to make the cake.Of course water is formless (it takes on whatever form its container has, but itself has no definite shape), so it could be that they thought the dry land was formed 'from' the water, as in the water was given a definite form that was solid. Not exactly. The dry land is not called 'earth' (soil), it is called 'Earth' (proper noun, the name we give to our planet). This shows that the seas are not on the Earth, but the Earth is 'in' the seas. They aren't describing the planet, there is no concept here of a spherical ball of rock with water on its surface. Instead we have a (possibly endless) expanse of water (and only water, or it wouldn't be formless) which is void and formless. From this we have dry land (void but no longer formless) appearing.

The extent to which you have gone to uphold your own assertions(or argument) defies all logic and reason. Filtering data to modulate result is simple denial. In the field of research, anyone trying to apply your methods would be laughed at and dismissed as a fool.Similarly, discounting opinions and observations by others only to offer up your own empty assertions(opinions) is pure evasive behavior. One of the biggest signs of a poser is one who abases others to generate the illusion of superiority.In a case where someone wants to *truly critic the scriptures(even a verse). A full comprehensive evaluation of the data in question is called on. This would include(not limited to) all the data surrounding the subject matter.. "Anyone" attempting to sensor, limit or impair this discipline should be discarded as impractical.This is a-typical behavior of a personalities dramatizing knowledge on a particular subject.It was long ago that similar behavior in people was noted and treated as such; 'I publicly praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have carefully hidden these things from wise and intellectual ones, and have revealed them to babes.'Edited by pbee, : updated referenceEdited by pbee, : No reason given.

So you keep asserting. If you have an argument. present one. Sorry about the typo.

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Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

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My point still stands: When God created man in Genesis 2:7, that couldn't have been any earlier than Day 6. So what? Heaven was still heaven and earth was still earth, even before they were named. That's a contradiction between the two accounts, not an indication of two creations. That's a contradiction between the two accounts, not an indication of two creations. Lack of mention of one detail in one account isn't even a contradiction. It's idiotic to use that as an indication of a second creation. If "plenish" was a word, that would almost make sense.Can you rebuke if you haven't already buked? can you repel if you haven't already pelled? Can you resign if you haven't already signed?Can your "argument" be so bankrupt that you have to make up words to prop it up? That's the order that they took place in part of the KJV Bible. Genesis 1 and Genesis 2 disagree about the order. You can make that disagreement magically disappear by butchering both stories as you have done - but that is not the literal account of creation in Genesis.The literal account is what the stories say - contradictions and all. Mirror, mirror....

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