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Author Topic:   Will The Real God Please Stand Up?
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 274 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 151 of 364 (380573)
01-27-2007 10:42 PM
Reply to: Message 135 by Phat
01-27-2007 11:57 AM


Re: What are the duties of a God?
Phat
It is not so much that God does not care what we do, but consider that if one of God's attributes is Perfection, which it is, then the systems that He has put in place must then by force be Perfect. What then would we have Him change. Only our understanding of the Perfection that we live and thrive in.
As pertains to God's other attributes, Think of any adjective possible and then bring it to its extreme force and its extreme weakness and you have all of His attributes.
No Limit.
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 135 by Phat, posted 01-27-2007 11:57 AM Phat has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 154 by Malachi-II, posted 01-28-2007 4:17 AM Greatest I am has replied

  
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 274 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 152 of 364 (380576)
01-27-2007 10:54 PM
Reply to: Message 143 by Phat
01-27-2007 12:39 PM


Re: The Fifth Candidate
As an aside. I was hoping I could prevail on you to visit miner god, for your honest opinion as to the logic of some of the writings at the address below.
http://boards.historychannel.com/index.jspa
I value your thoughts and will likely decide, based on them, as to whether or not I should bother you good people with my presence and discourse. I appreciate that this is a slightly strange request but do not wish to be of bother to other members if you report negatively.
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 143 by Phat, posted 01-27-2007 12:39 PM Phat has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 153 by anastasia, posted 01-27-2007 11:21 PM Greatest I am has replied

  
anastasia
Member (Idle past 5952 days)
Posts: 1857
From: Bucks County, PA
Joined: 11-05-2006


Message 153 of 364 (380582)
01-27-2007 11:21 PM
Reply to: Message 152 by Greatest I am
01-27-2007 10:54 PM


Re: The Fifth Candidate
GreatestIam writes:
miner god
Do you mean, 'minor god', and if so, do you mean lesser, or underaged?
Do your followers happen to call you 'Jehova'?
I have detected some of that flavour in your posting at the provided link.
First, you say Jesus, God, may have 'gotten the timing wrong' for the end times.
Is that because you do not consider Him God, but a 'minor God' as the JW's do?
Second, this idea of the end-times being wonderful (for christians) is especially savoring of their theology, in which good people will rule the earth during some end-time. I do believe Jesus was warning us rather than getting us excited, but that's just me.
miner god writes:
There was no fall. It was a glorious departure into adventure following mans nature just as God intended. Not the easy path of languishing in the garden getting fat and staying un-educated. You are correct in saying that the fall was permanent,
I think the good people at EvC would rather enjoy a discourse full of such self-contradictory statements Btw, what king of mining do you do?
Edited by anastasia, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 152 by Greatest I am, posted 01-27-2007 10:54 PM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 156 by Greatest I am, posted 01-28-2007 10:09 AM anastasia has replied

  
Malachi-II
Member (Idle past 6243 days)
Posts: 139
From: Sussex, England
Joined: 04-10-2006


Message 154 of 364 (380624)
01-28-2007 4:17 AM
Reply to: Message 151 by Greatest I am
01-27-2007 10:42 PM


Re: What are the duties of a God?
Greatest I am writes:
It is not so much that God does not care what we do, but consider that if one of God's attributes is Perfection, which it is, then the systems that He has put in place must then by force be Perfect. What then would we have Him change. Only our understanding of the Perfection that we live and thrive in.
May I respectfully offer another opinion about our perception of God's perfection. It's an excerpt from my allegory, THE WEEPING REDWOOD TREE. A discussion between God and an ancient gentleman. Please excuse the length. It's not a point one can deal with in a few words.
- Your holy books are filled with wondrous teachings from my sons and daughters who heard my voice. By their good fruits are they known. Others made changes that were not in tune with the infinite, or misinterpreted what was originally spoken and heard. For example there is great misunderstanding about the meaning of perfection. I am not perfect in your understanding of the word.
The old man gasped and looked up, eyes popping from his head. The forest seemed to catch its breath in amazement.
- You may well look surprised. It has long been taught that heaven is a place where no pain, no sorrow, no mischief and no misdeeds can enter in. Heaven is portrayed as a place of perfect peace and harmony and beauty. A desirable vision to ease the pain and sorrow and injustice that has infiltrated deeply into the human condition. Heaven is indeed a place of rest and renewal. But, understand this, the universe is not perfect. It continues to evolve.
- Your definition of perfection is anything that is complete beyond practical or theoretical improvement; without any of the flaws or shortcomings that might be present; faultless and correct in every detail. How can a universe be perfect when still in the process of developing? Do you not realize that Life is not without flaws; not faultless and correct in every detail? Why then do you blame people for being imperfect? Why encumber them with the yoke of being born of original sin? That is a deeply discouraging and erroneous burden to impose.
- My creation is perfect in the sense that it is ever changing, constantly evolving for the original purpose of perpetuating my love of Life. Had I failed in the beginning then Life would not have continued to evolve over fifteen billion years of your time measurement. My love could not be contained. It literally exploded into Life. You are an example of my love.
Astonished, the old man flushed with hope. “Me?”
- Yes, you. We both made mistakes. You could not have known of my concerns whether or not creation would manifest as planned; that humanity might misuse freewill and ignore the purpose of evolution. Once Life began it was instantly beyond my control. I could not withdraw freewill when it was abused. Creative love cannot be controlled, otherwise it could not be eternal. It was my love of Life that empowered forces to explode with energy that continues to radiate. Essences within that energy are the elemental building blocks of the universe. Self-centred love could not have sustained Life. Command and control? No. Life must be free of artificial controls if it is to be self-perpetuating and self-sustaining. It is the Spirit of Life within humanity that answers prayer, that works miracles.
- Religious leaders throughout the world have encouraged followers to worship me. I do not require worship. I do not need reminding that I Am. Humankind should be encouraged to grow in and through me. To become as I Am. To continue, through Love, the process of creation. Because of man’s efforts to impose controls, rather than lead as shining examples of Love, he has all but forfeited leadership. Hate grows stronger. If not reversed it will destroy the world created by mankind.
- Women could not be obedient to men who fell into dishonour through selfish decisions and actions. They were forced to assume leadership in many areas where men displayed lack of wisdom. Sadly, many women still suffer the effects of men’s decisions. Some are not yet free of the impetus that corrupted their menfolk. Wisdom is a currency of low value in the world. My children who came into the world to remind others of the need for divine wisdom were badly treated and misunderstood. They suffered at the hands of those they came to assist. You cannot know the sorrow that spread throughout Life . . . .
The old man looked up as drops of rain fell on his head. He had not been aware of gathering clouds. But the sky was clear. He then noticed water droplets falling from tips of branches. The wren flitted about catching drops in midair. No drops fell from other trees. It then occurred to him what was happening. He rose to his feet, stretched his arms as far as he could around the giant tree and gently patted the soft bark in a comforting gesture.
“There, there,” he murmured. “It’s all right. I will do better. I will rid myself and the Church of carefully constructed dogmas and encourage your precious gifts to grow from the essence of your Love, to flower and bear fruit for your eternally creative purpose.”
Water ceased to fall from its branches. The old man continued to hug the tree for a long while. The forest was silent apart from a clear, flute-like whistle of a Varied Thrush. A surge of energy flowed into the man. Dropping his arms he stood back and reflected. The task before him was unimaginably difficult. It would be easier to move mountains than change hardened attitudes. Schisms within the Church were one thing. Gulfs between rational belief systems and irrational fanaticism quite another. Momentous inner change strengthened his resolve; not to attempt to change the world, but to be one Self. To be true to himself and a positive example to others. It might require another two millennia for true brotherhood to encircle the globe.
He smiled at the thought that it took evolution fifteen billion years to get this far. In the mind of I Am, he mused, humanity might just unite in brotherhood in less time. He turned and noticed the gathering of wild life.
“My goodness. I have been truly blessed. Thank you all.”
The inhabitants of the forest silently dispersed. The man walked some distance then stopped abruptly, startled by the thought that he might not again hear the voice of God. The same voice sounded quietly in his inner ear.
- The decision is yours. When you fully understand and confess that I can never desert you nor forsake you is when you will eternally be one with Me. When you and all humankind choose Life is when you will be released from inner strife. Do not worship me. Simply be as I Am.
“How?”
- Do not force people to worship the god of your creation. Recognize and respect diversity within yourself, in others, and the whole of Creation. In so doing you will learn that nothing exists apart from God. Recognition of that simple fact will enable you to see with my eyes. Through you, others will see themselves more clearly, as I do, and will endeavour to reflect what you see rather than imposed or acquired distortions. There is nothing to worship, but everything to encourage, respect and embrace in the glory of Creation.
Edited by Malachi-II, : No reason given.
Edited by Malachi-II, : For ease of reading
Edited by Malachi-II, : For the ease of readers and pedants

This message is a reply to:
 Message 151 by Greatest I am, posted 01-27-2007 10:42 PM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 157 by Greatest I am, posted 01-28-2007 10:23 AM Malachi-II has not replied
 Message 160 by ringo, posted 01-28-2007 11:31 AM Malachi-II has replied

  
Malachi-II
Member (Idle past 6243 days)
Posts: 139
From: Sussex, England
Joined: 04-10-2006


Message 155 of 364 (380646)
01-28-2007 7:03 AM
Reply to: Message 95 by Archer Opteryx
01-25-2007 3:09 PM


Re: I am late but I am yada
Archer Opterix writes:
That's actually rather lovely, Malachi II.
I especially enjoyed this bit of pantheism:
Please forgive me for the belated response to your very kind words. I get caught up in the constant crossfire that seems to energise internet Forums. This one is no exception.
I must confess I haven't read the 'Gita' for a long while but will read the epiphany scene. For the amusement of many, I will confess to you that thoughts I most value enter my mind when meditating. It’s never easy for me to temporarily control the onslaught from my overactive mortal brain. However, in the brief moments when I subdue its hyperactivity I’m frequently amazed at what my higher mind reveals. Ego hates it when I meditate.
Thanks again, and thank you for reminding me of The Bhagavad Gita. I have a translation by Juan Mascaro. I am also deeply impressed with the writing of Kahlil Gibran, amongst countless others.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 95 by Archer Opteryx, posted 01-25-2007 3:09 PM Archer Opteryx has not replied

  
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 274 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 156 of 364 (380665)
01-28-2007 10:09 AM
Reply to: Message 153 by anastasia
01-27-2007 11:21 PM


Re: The Fifth Candidate
My father was a hard rock miner and the name fits in the sense that most of the minds I will speak to are hard as rock and cold as stone. I make no claim to Godhood except being a God in training or God potential.
I do name myself prophet based only on the fact of my contact with God.
I have no proclaimed followers. Would not want any. Jesus is the leader in all of this. I follow His lead. I just try to express God's concepts that we have misinterpreted thanks to the way the Bible is written. Jesus was a prophet possibly the last and best of that day. I simply build on His foundation.
Jesus told His disciples that the time of the end was at hand. He also said that a day in heaven was like a thousand years .He was either right and end time started when He was alive. Or He was wrong or we misinterpret His meaning for end time and end time ii a personal journey or we are in day 3 of heavenly time. Take your pick. Jesus also said He was the way etc. I think that here He meant His philosophy was the way. It is unknown whether or not God has truly placed Jesus at His right side and between Him and us in the demography of heaven. This was a claim made by Jesus and is unprovable as well as his claim of his bodily resurrection here on earth which is something I have a problem with.`
He called himself the son of God. We are in a sense all son's and daughters of God if we give Him the status of Creator which He must be if He is God. And He is. History and the success of Jesus makes the possibility of a special place in heaven more believable.
Jesus forecasted many woes at the end time. He also forecasted the arrival of God. We should be eager to take the pain of end time to reap the greater reward of the presence of God and the ordering of humanity and the bringing of world peace.
You make reference to my contradictory statement. Is this in reference to contradicting the meaning of the Bible or something I wrote. I see no contradiction.
Thank you for taking the time to read the miner god.
Mining for souls brother mining for souls.
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 153 by anastasia, posted 01-27-2007 11:21 PM anastasia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 158 by Phat, posted 01-28-2007 10:54 AM Greatest I am has replied
 Message 162 by anastasia, posted 01-28-2007 12:15 PM Greatest I am has replied

  
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 274 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 157 of 364 (380666)
01-28-2007 10:23 AM
Reply to: Message 154 by Malachi-II
01-28-2007 4:17 AM


Re: What are the duties of a God?
Thought provoking and interesting.
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 154 by Malachi-II, posted 01-28-2007 4:17 AM Malachi-II has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 158 of 364 (380671)
01-28-2007 10:54 AM
Reply to: Message 156 by Greatest I am
01-28-2007 10:09 AM


Re: The Fifth Candidate
GIA writes:
I make no claim to Godhood except being a God in training or God potential.
God in training? I thought the job was already taken. There is a difference between raising up and being like God and being in communion with God. Notice how Jesus was raised from the Dead (By His Father) rather than raising Himself from the dead. None of us ever have God potential, for we will never be able to create a Universe. This is not a problem, however. I am not an electrician, but I know who to call. I am not a Doctor but I know who to call. I am not a Deity but I believe that I know who to call.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 156 by Greatest I am, posted 01-28-2007 10:09 AM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 159 by Greatest I am, posted 01-28-2007 11:19 AM Phat has not replied
 Message 161 by ringo, posted 01-28-2007 11:47 AM Phat has not replied
 Message 167 by Greatest I am, posted 01-28-2007 7:36 PM Phat has not replied

  
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 274 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 159 of 364 (380676)
01-28-2007 11:19 AM
Reply to: Message 158 by Phat
01-28-2007 10:54 AM


Re: The Fifth Candidate
In Genesis God says that the knowledge of good and evil makes man as God. This is the only reason I say God in training. How close we can actually come remains in question.
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 158 by Phat, posted 01-28-2007 10:54 AM Phat has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 160 of 364 (380677)
01-28-2007 11:31 AM
Reply to: Message 154 by Malachi-II
01-28-2007 4:17 AM


Re: What are the duties of a God?
One thing we've learned about the nature of God: He didn't create paragraphs.

Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC

This message is a reply to:
 Message 154 by Malachi-II, posted 01-28-2007 4:17 AM Malachi-II has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 165 by Malachi-II, posted 01-28-2007 1:31 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 161 of 364 (380678)
01-28-2007 11:47 AM
Reply to: Message 158 by Phat
01-28-2007 10:54 AM


Re: The Fifth Candidate
Phat writes:
There is a difference between raising up and being like God and being in communion with God.
You're making assumptions about the nature of God. That "difference" has not been established here.
Notice how Jesus was raised from the Dead (By His Father) rather than raising Himself from the dead.
Two more unwarranted assumptions: first that Jesus rose from the dead and second that it was done by some external power. Neither sheds any light on the nature of God.
None of us ever have God potential, for we will never be able to create a Universe.
Tolkien created a universe. Asimov, Bradbury and Clarke created lots of 'em.
Who's to say the universe created by your God is more "real". The YECs have proven that theirs isn't.
I am not an electrician, but I know who to call. I am not a Doctor but I know who to call. I am not a Deity but I believe that I know who to call.
Invalid conclusion.
You know to call an electrician, but you don't always call the right one. The one you call might be too busy or he might be a screwup. You know to call a doctor, but he will often refer you to a different doctor.
You may feel the need to call a deity instead of self-medicating or self-elecrifying. But you might be calling one who is too busy or one who screws up or one who will refer you to a Specialist.

Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC

This message is a reply to:
 Message 158 by Phat, posted 01-28-2007 10:54 AM Phat has not replied

  
anastasia
Member (Idle past 5952 days)
Posts: 1857
From: Bucks County, PA
Joined: 11-05-2006


Message 162 of 364 (380684)
01-28-2007 12:15 PM
Reply to: Message 156 by Greatest I am
01-28-2007 10:09 AM


Re: The Fifth Candidate
GreatestIam writes:
My father was a hard rock miner and the name fits in the sense that most of the minds I will speak to are hard as rock and cold as stone.
Ok, that works and is rather cute. I did not mean to judge you.
I have no proclaimed followers.
Of course, I did not mean you yourself, only you were speaking in the person of a god.
What I wanted to know is whether you have any religious affiliations.
As to contradictions, you seem full of them.
Jesus is the leader in all of this.
Jesus was a prophet possibly the last and best
Or He was wrong
This was a claim made by Jesus and is unprovable
resurrection here on earth which is something I have a problem with.`
He called himself the son of God.
the success of Jesus
He also forecasted the arrival of God.
What is Jesus' success if He was killed and did not rise?
What kind of prophet is He if you only believe half of what He says?
Is He your leader, or can you do better?
Edited by anastasia, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 156 by Greatest I am, posted 01-28-2007 10:09 AM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 163 by ringo, posted 01-28-2007 12:58 PM anastasia has replied
 Message 168 by Greatest I am, posted 01-28-2007 8:03 PM anastasia has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 163 of 364 (380693)
01-28-2007 12:58 PM
Reply to: Message 162 by anastasia
01-28-2007 12:15 PM


Re: The Fifth Candidate
anastasia writes:
What is Jesus' success if He was killed and did not rise?
What is Gandhi's success? What is Martin Luther King's success? What is Albert Schweitzer's success?
What kind of prophet is He if you only believe half of what He says?
Better than most.

Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC

This message is a reply to:
 Message 162 by anastasia, posted 01-28-2007 12:15 PM anastasia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 164 by anastasia, posted 01-28-2007 1:27 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
anastasia
Member (Idle past 5952 days)
Posts: 1857
From: Bucks County, PA
Joined: 11-05-2006


Message 164 of 364 (380705)
01-28-2007 1:27 PM
Reply to: Message 163 by ringo
01-28-2007 12:58 PM


Re: The Fifth Candidate
I am just trying to feel this guy out a bit, Ringo.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 163 by ringo, posted 01-28-2007 12:58 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
Malachi-II
Member (Idle past 6243 days)
Posts: 139
From: Sussex, England
Joined: 04-10-2006


Message 165 of 364 (380707)
01-28-2007 1:31 PM
Reply to: Message 160 by ringo
01-28-2007 11:31 AM


Re: What are the duties of a God?
Ringo writes:
One thing we've learned about the nature of God: He didn't create paragraphs.
Presumably God did not get a university education. Perhaps that is why he is neither pedantic or self righteous.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 160 by ringo, posted 01-28-2007 11:31 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 166 by ringo, posted 01-28-2007 1:45 PM Malachi-II has replied

  
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