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Author Topic:   What Is The Holy Spirit
PaulK
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Posts: 17007
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.6


(1)
Message 93 of 176 (883578)
12-20-2020 9:14 AM
Reply to: Message 75 by Phat
12-16-2020 1:55 PM


Re: Doing What Jesus Says
quote:
The thing is, if nobody owned anything, where could He stay? Surely some people needed to own homes.

Did he need somewhere to stay?

19 A scribe then approached and said, “Teacher, I will follow you wherever you go.” 20 And Jesus said to him, “Foxes have holes, and birds of the air have nests; but the Son of Man has nowhere to lay his head.”

(Matthew 8, NRSV)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 75 by Phat, posted 12-16-2020 1:55 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17007
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.6


(3)
Message 97 of 176 (883588)
12-22-2020 4:10 AM
Reply to: Message 96 by Phat
12-21-2020 9:32 PM


Re: Doing What Jesus Says
quote:
First, define "the poor". Is it the guy scraping by on minimum wage trying to raise a family? Is it people largely outside of the United States that are far worse off?

What limits did Jesus suggest? Doesn’t the story of the Good Samaritan suggest that you should not limit it to people of your own nation?

quote:
Is it simply a monetary equation? The net worth of everyone divided by the basic cost of food, clothing, shelter, and perhaps health care and retirement security?

Surely it should be a sufficient amount for everyone to get by.

quote:
Next, using the "book" as a supporting argument, who among us globally professes to be a Christian? And does this legally obligate these people alone to ...oh I dunno....give all that they have to alleviate global poverty before anyone else is legally obligated to lift a finger?

You are confusing religion and secular law. Legally you aren’t required to give any more, and nobody has suggested that you should. As a matter of religious obligation it is irrelevant what unbelievers do or do not do. By definition unbelievers will not accept that they have that obligation.

quote:
Do I get a share of your spare change if I am Christian or if I am simply poor?

Why would being Christian entitle you to an unbeliever’s money?
If you’re talking about government spending you should get the same entitlements as anyone else in the same economic situation, regardless of your religion.

quote:
Are you exempt from the group that has to help the poor through government since the church down the block failed?

This seems to be the same confusion about law and religious obligation again.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by Phat, posted 12-21-2020 9:32 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17007
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.6


(1)
Message 151 of 176 (883908)
01-17-2021 12:21 PM
Reply to: Message 149 by Phat
01-17-2021 10:53 AM


Re: What is the "Holy Spirit"?
quote:
You would be a frustrating teacher had I signed up for your class. Not only would you force me out of my comfort zone of like minded believers, you would actually get me to test my belief with critical thinking and unbiased experimentation

It sounds like you don’t want actual teaching. You just want someone to reinforce your pre-existing beliefs, right or wrong.

If you want comfort rather than truth that’s up to you, but this is an attitude that reinforces jar’s references to the “Christian Cult of Ignorance”.

quote:
There is One God. Even if I threw religion and the Bible away, the belief makes perfect sense. Pantheism is weak and indecisive. Polytheism is ignorant.

Such claims really do demand reasoned argument. Where’s yours?

quote:
Monotheism assures me that if I have a problem with a product, the Store Director owes me the rights of a customer. He can, of course, refuse to give me what I demand.

Really? The attitude I see more often is that even daring to complain is fundamentally wrong. So much for the “rights if a customer”.

quote:
How confusing would it be if I had a room full of "Store Directors" who chose to vote a consensus and I was forced to conform if I wanted to be part of that buyers club?

Three observations here. First you don’t understand polytheism at all.

Second “ignorance” is quite different from “Phat wouldn’t like it”.

Third even as analogy this sucks. You don’t usually take complaints direct to the CEO or even a director. Even if you did you don’t deal with only one business, so you would be dealing with multiple people - you don’t blame the hardware store if the baker sells you a stale loaf. You take that complaint to the baker.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 149 by Phat, posted 01-17-2021 10:53 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17007
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.6


(1)
Message 156 of 176 (883925)
01-18-2021 5:47 AM
Reply to: Message 155 by Phat
01-18-2021 5:38 AM


Re: What is the "Holy Spirit"?
quote:
What you and every other EvC skeptic have in common is that you do not see evidence and it is this fact alone which keeps you from choosing to believe. Furthermore, the evidence that would initially have convinced you was not signs and wonders. Nor Angels or demons. The evidence which eluded you was the behavior and actions of those who claimed to know Jesus.

Oh, I certainly noticed THAT evidence. But it’s hardly favourable evidence for you, is it?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 155 by Phat, posted 01-18-2021 5:38 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 158 by Phat, posted 01-18-2021 10:56 AM PaulK has responded

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17007
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 161 of 176 (883931)
01-18-2021 12:00 PM
Reply to: Message 158 by Phat
01-18-2021 10:56 AM


Re: What is the "Holy Spirit"?
quote:
I think it must be obvious to an outsider that anyone who truly "had the Spirit or indwelling presence of the Creator of all seen and unseen...as we claim to have, would not be afraid of giving everything up.

In that case how can we know that anyone “truly” had it? There are people who will give everything up for their faith, but it’s not restricted to Christianity.

If your “evidence” is selecting exceptional Christians while ignoring those of other faiths it’s not exactly good evidence of anything than your bias. In fact it’s a pretty good example of confirmation bias.

Not to mention the awful people who have claimed to be Christian - some of them truly terrible.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 158 by Phat, posted 01-18-2021 10:56 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
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