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Author Topic:   What Is The Holy Spirit
One4Truth
Inactive Member


Message 16 of 176 (277674)
01-10-2006 1:02 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by moolmogo
12-27-2005 2:57 AM


The Spirit of Truth and the Spirit of Love
First of all, everyone, everywhere is a "believer" - we all have a "religion" of one type or another, even if we say that we don't believe in any religion! That is being "anti-religious".

An Atheist is a believer - he "has faith" that there is no God, and therefore no "True Religion".

Christians (at least most) believe that the Holy Spirit is the second person of the Holy Trinity (God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit - three persons, one triune God).

Some Atheists, and others, have their own "Unholy Trinity". It is the belief in "Me, myself and I"!

One who parties and is always in search of fun and leisure is a Hedonist. His "Unholy Trinity" is "Comfort, pleasure and material things" (I know, I was a member for a while!).

The extreme to the other side might be Sadism or Sado-Masochism, with the "Unholy Trinity" of "Suffering, pain, and possibly even suicidal thoughts" or some other unhealthy, unproductive or downright illogical, distorted, destructive and/or dangerous worldview.

No matter what someone believes, it is still their "religion".

Anyway, for those who seriously wonder if we can ever really know "The Truth" about God, religion, etc., consider for just a moment or two, this statement:

"Nothing is true."

Now ask yourself this question:

"If 'Nothing is true', than how can someone even attempt to say that statement itself is true!?" After all, if 'Nothing is true', than that statement can't be true either!! So, logically, the more someone tries to declare that statement IS true, the more they have just declared that there really IS a thing called Truth, which means they just contradicted themselves about nothing being true!! Did I thoroughly confuse you yet? : )

As far as "What is the Holy Spirit?", if you want to know the OFFICIAL Christian teaching, for the last 2,000 years, from the Church that Christ (God) Himself established and placed His official "marks" on, and His "fingerprints" all over, visit here:

http://www.kofc.org/un/publications/cis...

And for the skeptics, if you're brave enough, or serious enough, and you'd like to perform a completely unbiased, honest, and very SCIENTIFIC experiment to try to prove or disprove this "theory", then try this:

Every day for the next nine days straight, read the prayer below (a "Novena", just like in the Book of Acts Chapter 1, the nine days before Pentecost) as if you really, sincerely DID believe EVERYTHING you read, as best as you can muster, and live it out for the full nine days as much as you know how.

Then, let God, through the power of His Holy Spirit, do the rest, and see what happens! OK, ready? Be strong! In the words of a late, great, and powerful prophet of God - in our very own generation - "BE NOT AFRAID!"

PRAYER FOR THE SEVEN GIFTS OF THE HOLY SPIRIT:

"O Lord Jesus Christ, before ascending into heaven you did promise to send the Holy Spirit to finish your work in the souls of your Apostles and Disciples, deign to grant the same Holy Spirit to me that He may perfect in my soul, the work of your grace and your love. Grant me the Spirit of Wisdom that I may despise the perishable things of this world and aspire only after the things that are eternal, the Spirit of Understanding to enlighten my mind with the light of your divine truth, the Spirit of Counsel that I may ever choose the surest way of pleasing God and gaining heaven, the Spirit of Fortitude that I may bear my cross with you and that I may overcome with courage all the obstacles that oppose my salvation, the Spirit of Knowledge that I may know God and know myself and grow perfect in imitation of the Saints, the Spirit of Piety that I may find the service of God sweet and amiable, and the Spirit of Fear that I may be filled with a loving reverence towards God and may dread in any way to displease Him. Mark me, dear Lord with the sign of your true disciples, and animate me in all things with your Spirit. Amen."

Oh yeah, to be a legitmate, and completely accurate scientific study, you also have to pray it as if you REALLY ARE committing the rest of your life to really know God's Truth and purpose for you! He DOES know when you're taking Him seriously, and when you're not!

Peace and prayers,
One4Truth (www.threestepstothefountain.com)

fixed url display length to fix page width - The Queen

This message has been edited by AdminAsgara, 01-10-2006 07:27 AM


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by moolmogo, posted 12-27-2005 2:57 AM moolmogo has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by Funkaloyd, posted 01-10-2006 1:24 AM One4Truth has responded

  
Funkaloyd
Inactive Member


Message 17 of 176 (277676)
01-10-2006 1:24 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by One4Truth
01-10-2006 1:02 AM


Re: The Spirit of Truth and the Spirit of Love
One4Truth writes:

everyone, everywhere is a "believer"...An Atheist is a believer - he "has faith" that there is no God

What about an agnostic, who doesn't believe in gods, but doesn't believe that there are no gods?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by One4Truth, posted 01-10-2006 1:02 AM One4Truth has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by iano, posted 01-10-2006 7:35 AM Funkaloyd has not yet responded
 Message 19 by Phat, posted 01-10-2006 10:00 AM Funkaloyd has not yet responded
 Message 21 by jaywill, posted 01-10-2006 10:27 PM Funkaloyd has not yet responded
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iano
Member (Idle past 1009 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 18 of 176 (277703)
01-10-2006 7:35 AM
Reply to: Message 17 by Funkaloyd
01-10-2006 1:24 AM


Re: The Spirit of Truth and the Spirit of Love
funk writes:

What about an agnostic, who doesn't believe in gods, but doesn't believe that there are no gods?

Check 'em out. I think you'll find that agnostics, although claiming to sit on the fence live their lives as if there was no God. Fence sitters in name only. Like many adherents to Religion in fact...


This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Funkaloyd, posted 01-10-2006 1:24 AM Funkaloyd has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15713
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 19 of 176 (277718)
01-10-2006 10:00 AM
Reply to: Message 17 by Funkaloyd
01-10-2006 1:24 AM


Re: The Spirit of Truth and the Spirit of Love
Funkaloyd writes:

What about an agnostic, who doesn't believe in gods, but doesn't believe that there are no gods?

Don't trip....just chill with reality and honesty at the forefront.

One thing I do know----if anything moves you, it won't be the words of men.

:) :) :) :) :)>>>>>>>>>>>>PB<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<;) ;) ;)


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Hangdawg13
Member (Idle past 3974 days)
Posts: 1161
From: Texas
Joined: 05-30-2004


Message 20 of 176 (277816)
01-10-2006 4:23 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by moolmogo
12-27-2005 2:57 AM


What is the Holy Spirit?

God.

Are the experiences people have with the Holy Spirit proof of the Almighty?

Define proof. Many experiences would definately be proof for all but the most hardcore skeptics. Due to the nature of some of the experiences some cannot be proof to anyone but the person having the experience.

Which experiences are of the Holy Spirit and which are not?

Read the book of Acts and 1 Corinthians 12-14. Tongues is the most common (possibly universal) sign that is given upon being filled or baptized with the Holy Spirit. But the Holy Spirit at times still works on and through people who have not been filled.

Understanding the Scriptures. Some say they learn from the Holy Spirit.

Yes.

Is it possible that a group of unbelievers without the Holy Spirit could gain understanding people have learned with the Holy Spirit?

The unbeliever's rejection of the Holy Spirit makes this impossible. In any area of understanding, we have to make assumptions before we can reach conclusions. If we reject the founding assumptions (belief in God), we can't reach the conclusions. It is the Holy Spirit alone who gives understanding when one reads the scriptures; otherwise it is "foolishness".

Remembering verses from the Word when you need it.

Definately. This happened to me a few nights ago. I was terribly sad, depressed, and upset over something. I prayed that God would have mercy and help me. When my head hit the pillow, my mind was flooded with scriptures and praises. I don't know when I fell asleep, but I woke up an hour later with a smile on my face almost singing aloud scriptures that I had forgotten. I was extremely surprised at myself, and I didn't know what had happened at first. I knew that just an hour ago I was incredibly depressed, and now through no effort of my own I had recalled all these scriptures and was the happiest person in the world. That had never happened to me before.

Being convicted of sin and repenting.

Yep.

Being led by the Holy Spirit to help someone (you may or may not know) at the right time without knowing they needed the help.

mmHmm.

The ability to have the "fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance".

Yep.

Is it possible for people, without the Spirit, to have all those attributes naturally and/or until they die? Are there any studies?

I would say all except faith as applied towards God.

Then there are the miracles of healing, raising the dead, and speaking and interpreting in other earthly languages.

Yep.

Some would disgree with slayings, laughing, and babbling tongues being the work of the Holy Spirit

I would. God is a God of order.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by moolmogo, posted 12-27-2005 2:57 AM moolmogo has not yet responded

  
jaywill
Member (Idle past 1009 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 21 of 176 (277921)
01-10-2006 10:27 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by Funkaloyd
01-10-2006 1:24 AM


Re: The Spirit of Truth and the Spirit of Love
What about an agnostic, who doesn't believe in gods, but doesn't believe that there are no gods?

There are two kinds of agnostics.

One type is the person who says "I don't know if God exists. But maybe someone else knows."

The other type is the person who says "I don't know if God exists. And nobody else knows either."


This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Funkaloyd, posted 01-10-2006 1:24 AM Funkaloyd has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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jaywill
Member (Idle past 1009 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


(1)
Message 22 of 176 (277929)
01-10-2006 10:39 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by jaywill
01-10-2006 10:27 PM


Re: The Spirit of Truth and the Spirit of Love
The Holy Spirit is God finally reaching us to get inside of us.

The Holy Spirit is the Father and the Son coming to man to impart, dispense the divine into man's being.

The Holy Spirit is:

1.) Holy - meaning He is separated from all things common. Everything that exists is in one catagory of "common" things. And God Himself is in a whole other catagory. God is unique in an ultimate sense. He is different from all other things which have being. God alone is holy.

So this essence of God is unique and uncommon; separated from all other things which exists. This is "holy."

One caveat: In the Bible things which are consecrated to God are also called "holy", ie. holy angels, holy anointing oil.

2.) Spirit - is a word meaning wind or breath. This is a limited way in which human language can discribe something abstract in a divine and mystical way.

Holy Spirit is God Himself. And Holy Spirit is "pneuma" or "breath". And this pneuma is Jesus Christ Himself. The Holy Spirit is Jesus Christ in another form. The Holy Spirit is the man Jesus Christ in His pneumatic form.

The Holy Spirit is God in Christ put in a form in which He can enter into man's innermost spiritual being.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by jaywill, posted 01-10-2006 10:27 PM jaywill has responded

Replies to this message:
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Hangdawg13
Member (Idle past 3974 days)
Posts: 1161
From: Texas
Joined: 05-30-2004


Message 23 of 176 (278059)
01-11-2006 9:52 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by jaywill
01-10-2006 10:39 PM


Re: The Spirit of Truth and the Spirit of Love
I agree with that.

This message is a reply to:
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jaywill
Member (Idle past 1009 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 24 of 176 (278342)
01-11-2006 11:48 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by jaywill
01-10-2006 10:39 PM


Re: The Spirit of Truth and the Spirit of Love
Thankyou.

There was a time in my early Christian life when I spent considerable time trying to figure out when and how the disciples received the Holy Spirit.

I was musing over many verses about the Holy Spirit in the books of Acts and in John's gospel.

I was trying to figure out John 20:22 which says "And when He had said this, He breathed into them and said to them, Receive the Holy Spirit."

I was trying to understand how this was related to or contradicted Acts account of the coming of the Holy Spirit on Pentecost. Then it seemed that the Holy Spirit Himself spoke to me inwardly.

The verse said "Receive the Holy Spirit." It did not say "[Figure out] the Holy Spirit" or "[Analyze] the Holy Spirit"

The Lord Jesus seemed to be impressing me that it was a time for me simply to "Receive ... the Holy Spirit." That is to open up my being to the Holy Spirit. That was more important at this time then for me to figure out when the Holy Spirit came to the church.

It is easy for us to miss the point. Not that we should not study matters like the Holy Spirit. But I was impressed that it was more important for me to "Receive" this Holy Spirit and to be filled with Him more and more.

This message has been edited by jaywill, 01-11-2006 11:48 PM

This message has been edited by jaywill, 01-11-2006 11:50 PM

This message has been edited by jaywill, 01-11-2006 11:52 PM


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One4Truth
Inactive Member


Message 25 of 176 (279002)
01-14-2006 5:54 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by Funkaloyd
01-10-2006 1:24 AM


Re: The Spirit of Truth and the Spirit of Love
Funkaloyd said:

"What about an agnostic, who doesn't believe in gods, but doesn't believe that there are no gods?"

I agree with Iano, just below Funkaloyd's post. The agnostic's "faith" is basically the belief that we humans, or at least some individuals, cannot know, with any degree of certainty, that God exists. They have not yet accepted, or acted on, the possibility that a person really CAN know God, if they really, honestly, allow Him to reveal Himself to them - in one way or another: through the undeniable, infinitely intelligent design in nature, through reading the scriptures and other HISTORICAL evidence, particularly "Christian Apologetics" (like http://www.peterkreeft.com/topics/christ-divinity.htm), through "infused knowledge - straight from God, or any way He so chooses to reveal Himself).

Or, as one of the world's greatest resources, the Church God Himself established, states:

"Agnosticism assumes a number of forms. In certain cases the agnostic refrains from denying God; instead he postulates the existence of a transcendent being which is incapable of revealing itself, and about which nothing can be said. In other cases, the agnostic makes no judgment about God's existence, declaring it impossible to prove, or even to affirm or deny."

"Agnosticism can sometimes include a certain search for God, but it can equally express indifferentism, a flight from the ultimate question of existence, and a sluggish moral conscience. Agnosticism is all too often equivalent to practical atheism."

And for more about the undeniable, infinitely intelligent design in nature, the first big step to finding the "Fountain of Truth", visit:

http://www.threestepstothefountain.com/step1.html

Enjoy your journey! I know I have been for years, and still am!
One4Truth


This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Funkaloyd, posted 01-10-2006 1:24 AM Funkaloyd has not yet responded

  
One4Truth
Inactive Member


Message 26 of 176 (279014)
01-14-2006 6:21 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by jaywill
01-11-2006 11:48 PM


Re: The Spirit of Truth and the Spirit of Love
Jaywill,

What a great perspective on the Holy Spirit. You are right, we need to recieve the Holy Spirit (God) - as Jesus said, "whoever abides in me, I will abide in them". Pretty amazing that God wants to share His divinity with us, just like (although maybe not exactly like) he did with the Twelve (apostles), as they performed healing miracles, and raised people from the dead - their "credentials", and public witness of having the authority of God, that Jesus (God in the flesh) entrusted them with! Jesus also called the apostles to particpate in His miracles (magnification of the loaves, catching a net full of fish, John 21, etc.)

The Apostle's Creed associates faith in the forgiveness of sins not only with faith in the Holy Spirit, but also with faith in the Church and in the communion of saints. It was when he gave the Holy Spirit to his apostles that the risen Christ conferred on them his own divine power to forgive sins: "Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained."

"Now when the apostles at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent to them Peter and John, who came down and prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit; for it had not yet fallen on any of them, but they had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then they laid their hands on them and they received the Holy Spirit" (Acts 8:14-17).

"On the evening of that day, the first day of the week," Jesus showed himself to his apostles. "He breathed on them, and said to them: 'Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained"' (Jn 20:19, 22-23, Matt.16:18-19). Boy, non-Catholics just don't know what to do with some of these verses, huh? : )

As St. Paul affirms, "Where sin increased, grace abounded all the more." But to do its work grace must uncover sin so as to convert our hearts and bestow on us "righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ ourLord." Like a physician who probes the wound before treating it, God, by his Word and by his Spirit, casts a living light on sin:

Conversion requires convincing of sin; it includes the interior judgment of conscience, and this, being a proof of the action of the Spirit of truth in man's inmost being, becomes at the same time the start of a new grant of grace and love: "Receive the Holy Spirit." Thus in this "convincing concerning sin" we discover a double gift: the gift of the truth of conscience and the gift of the certainty of redemption. The Spirit of truth is the Consoler.

"It pleased God, in his goodness and wisdom, to reveal himself and to make known the mystery of his will. His will was that men should have access to the Father, through Christ, the Word made flesh, in the Holy Spirit, and thus become sharers in the divine nature."

The Word became flesh to make us "partakers of the divine nature": "For this is why the Word became man, and the Son of God became the Son of man: so that man, by entering into communion with the Word and thus receiving divine sonship, might become a son of God."

What an awesome God we have!
One4Truth


This message is a reply to:
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Phat
Member
Posts: 15713
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 27 of 176 (422890)
09-18-2007 4:55 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by riVeRraT
01-04-2006 6:29 AM


Explaining The Holy Spirit
RiverRat writes:

I read about it, and studied it in the bible, but it was years before I finally felt what I believe is the Holy Spirit manifesting himself in me.

I have been trying to explain it for 2 years, and analyze it, and how it affects me. I try to be as objective as possible, but there are just too many coincidences.

I have felt as you did before. (I think! :o ) I feel no need to explain it to others...I am more interested in behaving the best I know how.

RR writes:

I get "downloads" of information sometimes. Sometimes that information is to help me, and sometimes it is to help others.


Is that why you are so good at chess? :p

This message is a reply to:
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Phat
Member
Posts: 15713
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 28 of 176 (710889)
11-12-2013 10:41 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by jar
01-03-2006 11:17 PM


Likely Or Not?
IMHO are far more likely to be coming from Atheists and Agnostics than from Christians.
This makes no sense. I would say as likely since logically all people are the same.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by jar, posted 01-03-2006 11:17 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 29 by jar, posted 11-12-2013 11:00 AM Phat has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33500
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 4.2


Message 29 of 176 (710891)
11-12-2013 11:00 AM
Reply to: Message 28 by Phat
11-12-2013 10:41 AM


Re: Likely Or Not?
The part I was responding to was ...

quote:
Being convicted of sin and repenting.

Being led by the Holy Spirit to help someone (you may or may not know) at the right time without knowing they needed the help.

The ability to have the "fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance".


In my experience those things are really rare within Club Christian, particularly among the "Biblical Christian" chapters.

While all might be logically equal, in reality very few are equal and training or indoctrination certainly can override any original equality.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by Phat, posted 11-12-2013 10:41 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
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Phat
Member
Posts: 15713
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 30 of 176 (710921)
11-12-2013 6:12 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by jar
11-12-2013 11:00 AM


Who Has The Spirit?
Concerning good works...
training or indoctrination certainly can override any original equality...
We have discussed many things..both you, I, and others.

  • Some believe that all humans have the awareness. The spark. The desire. Others believe that only "believers" get this ability.

    Assuming that all people are responsible, as you do, I can see where you say that much of organized religion encourages its followers to "let go and let God", only help those who are worthy, let Jesus deal with them, and on and on. I believe this to a limited degree...in that God will work through unbelievers as readily as through believers. Thats one reason I stay here at EvC. Many of the arguments here cause me great cognitive dissonance, but I sense that the motives of most of you are by and large sincere and not destructive.


  • This message is a reply to:
     Message 29 by jar, posted 11-12-2013 11:00 AM jar has acknowledged this reply

    Replies to this message:
     Message 31 by ringo, posted 11-13-2013 12:27 PM Phat has responded

      
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