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Author | Topic: What Is The Holy Spirit | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Tangle Member Posts: 8090 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.3 |
We totally understand Phat. You make your own God to suit your personal beliefs, needs and circumstances. Just like everybody does. We've been telling you that for years, it's no surprise. It won't stop us pointing out what your book actually says. Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 5745 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 4.7 |
I'm sorry for your troubles. I hope your situation improves dramatically.
But, Phat, I will take this opportunity to inform you that had the liberal agenda been implemented then right now your mum would be receiving medical care free of charge and your Niece's family would not be in any danger since the covid protocols would have be established much more effectively. Factio Republicana delenda est. ![]()
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PaulK Member Posts: 16770 Joined: Member Rating: 2.7
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quote: Did he need somewhere to stay?
(Matthew 8, NRSV)
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ringo Member Posts: 18937 From: frozen wasteland Joined: Member Rating: 3.8 |
And everybody agrees that governments should spend the money for them - on roads, on schools, etc. But that is not the issue. The issue is that Christians are supposed to take care of the poor - but they don't, so governments have it do it. "I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member Posts: 18937 From: frozen wasteland Joined: Member Rating: 3.8 |
I don't have to believe That Frodo existed to know what the book says. Address that point. "I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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Phat Member Posts: 15132 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
So what is the basic argument? Lets reduce it to a basic dollars and cents (or sense First, define "the poor". Is it the guy scraping by on minimum wage trying to raise a family? Is it people largely outside of the United States that are far worse off? Is it simply a monetary equation? The net worth of everyone divided by the basic cost of food, clothing, shelter, and perhaps health care and retirement security? Lets start by defining that. Next, using the "book" as a supporting argument, who among us globally professes to be a Christian? And does this legally obligate these people alone to ...oh I dunno....give all that they have to alleviate global poverty before anyone else is legally obligated to lift a finger? Lets be clear what you mean, ringo. I sometimes think that you and many other liberals target the global "Christian" Nationalists whom you see with a lions share of the money.... Do I get a share of your spare change if I am Christian or if I am simply poor? Are you exempt from the group that has to help the poor through government since the church down the block failed? Edited by Phat, : spelling Edited by Phat, : spelling "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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PaulK Member Posts: 16770 Joined: Member Rating: 2.7
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quote: What limits did Jesus suggest? Doesn’t the story of the Good Samaritan suggest that you should not limit it to people of your own nation? quote: Surely it should be a sufficient amount for everyone to get by. quote: You are confusing religion and secular law. Legally you aren’t required to give any more, and nobody has suggested that you should. As a matter of religious obligation it is irrelevant what unbelievers do or do not do. By definition unbelievers will not accept that they have that obligation. quote: Why would being Christian entitle you to an unbeliever’s money? quote: This seems to be the same confusion about law and religious obligation again.
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ringo Member Posts: 18937 From: frozen wasteland Joined: Member Rating: 3.8
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Don't try to calculate your way out of responsibility. "The poor" is anybody who needs your help.
You do.
As I have told you many times before, it has nothing to do with legal obligation. It's something that a reall follower of Christ would do cheerfully.
I have been very clear: A follower of Christ would be glad to do what He asked. The disciples did it. The early Church did it. But you are a follower of a "Jesus" that you have made up in your head - one that is very careful not to ask you to do anything you don't want to do.
You get a share of my spare change if you ask for it. Ask and ye shall receive.
You know the answer to that. The government doesn't exempt anybody. "I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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Phat Member Posts: 15132 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Lets close out the year arguing about the practical implications of "giving it all up".
Despite your overall mockery of apologists, this one has as good of an answer as I would give. Does Jesus Expect His Followers To Give Up All Of Their Possessions I knolw your arguments. You will take the literal words of the book (and the character Jesus in the book) as your argument. I reject your argument because of several reasons:
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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jar Member Posts: 33273 From: Texas!! Joined: Member Rating: 4.3 |
Phat, there is no such thing as "the Modern Church™". That is as silly as claiming there is some such thing as "The Bible™".
Christianity is as fractured today as it has always been and as always the differences revolve around power, influence, politics and money. The dogmatic differences today are the same as always, simply one tool to exclude those who challenge or threaten some cult's power, influence, politics and/or money. And still no one has even tried to address the topic which is "What Is The Holy Spirit?" And, likely for a good reason. Just as there is no "God™" or "Jesus™" or "Bible™" or "Christian Church™" there is no "Holy Spirit™". It is as meaningless a phrase as "Jesus is living today" is. It is solely the product of human imagination and means only whatever the person uttering the phrase imagines it might mean and even that seems to devolve into a series of additional meaningless but repeatable catch phrases and dogmatic spiels.
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 5745 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 4.7 |
This looks interesting. Phat’s argument is well taken, imho, given cafeteria Christianity.
Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given. Factio Republicana delenda est. ![]()
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Phat Member Posts: 15132 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
jar is a constant unwavering challenge. Like with you, I know that you are not a believer and thus some of jars arguments make some sense to you as well as my ongoing attempts to address them. Ringo is a bit more puzzling because3 hee used to be a believer....I'm thinking a rather serious one...and then became disillusioned for two basic reasons.
1) Logic and Evidence took obvious precedence. 2) Most "Christians" whom he knew failed to live up to the standard(which he considers a no-brainer) Jar, on the other hand, has positioned himself both as a believer(or at least a recognized member of a church) and yet also beholden to logic, reason, and reality. He always says he wants to get me to think (that I might actually enjoy it) but I cant simply take contrarian sides regarding my personal belief. I know that it makes zero sense to you guys and 100% sense to Biblical Christian Believers and Apologists. "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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nwr Member Posts: 5676 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: Member Rating: 7.9 |
Those do not contradict one another. You seem to see them as contradictory (your use of "yet"). I never saw them as contradictory. Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity
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jar Member Posts: 33273 From: Texas!! Joined: Member Rating: 4.3 |
So once again, what exactly is 'The Holy Spirit'?
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 5745 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 4.7 |
The holy spirit is a little tweeting bird chirping in the meadow. The holy spirit is a wreath of pretty flowers that smell bad.
Factio Republicana delenda est. ![]()
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