May I remind you that I lost my Mother on December 20th and have been in mourning.
Sorry, I did not know or possibly remember, I don't read every post in every thread since I have other things going on.
I will get around to your challenge soon.
Take your time.
Let me give you a bit of helpful advice. Selfishness is not a part of anything attributed to Jesus, quite the opposite. The greatest advocate of selfishness was the atheist Ayn Rand.
The problem with knowing everything is learning nothing.
If you don't know what you're doing, find someone who does, and do what they do.
We still haven't had anyone explain just what the "Holy Spirit" is. Trinitarian Christianity Doctrine is pretty clear on what the "Holy Spirit" is NOT but filled with contradictory declarations on what the "Holy Spirit" really is.
Christian teaching itself is full of contradictory and conflicting definitions and doctrines. You yourself may explain the Holy Spirit as likely little more than a character in a book. Trinitarian Christianity Doctrine is no mystery to me, though it is controversial among humanist sects of Christianity. They cant quite grasp the idea of the Father(you will ask which God) the Son (Scripture plainly tells us that God had One begotten Son) AND The Holy Spirit(we can examine some other translations if you like, as long as we are led by the Holy Spirit and not some intellectual pretender who thinks it all a myth!)
Let me try and pull up the parts of an ESV or NKJV Bible that mention the holy spirit and we can discuss the context as we see it.
Look, jar---I realize that you have a good argument from an objective evidence-based standard. You have historically dismissed "believers" as uneducated at best, preferential towards fantasy, and hypocritical. What would you define as fantasy, however? That Jesus was God? More-so, that He represented GOD, Creator of all seen and unseen? Or do you believe (and I know you do) that we are NOT special nor unique among the populations of the universe? Did it ever occur to you that there just might be One GOD over all of the universe, multiverses, life, and reality and that despite what people imagine/fantasize, this basic fact IS reality. It could well be that Jesus takes on many forms as He visits other planet populations and that it is Gods mission to restore our lost sanity. Or you could choose to believe that Stan Lees creation is more original and special than GOD's!!
What would you want from a Comforter Who is also the Creator?
As we individually argue with and between ourselves and others, we need to form a larger perspective from which to ask questions.
Edited by Phat, : added jabberwockian discourse
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ***
far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.- Dr.John Lennox
The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe. - Criss Jami, Killo
The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him. Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
Phat, stop pestering jar, whose understanding is far beyond apparently yours is, stop siding with ignorance, and start reading the Gospel According to Matthew as I fucking beg you to do.
Stop cursing others for their understanding, and start working on your own, for Christ's sake.
The Universe is not about you.
The problem with knowing everything is learning nothing.
If you don't know what you're doing, find someone who does, and do what they do.
Okay, so since it is no mystery to you please explain it.
Keep in mind that I am only explaining my beliefe and how I understand it. There is no way that I can answer the question in any evidence-based scientific methodology.
Imagine yourself being GOD, Creator of all seen and unseen. Your creative intelligence itself is the essence of life throughout the universe(perhaps multiverses) known and unknown. There are a brazillion spots that sentient life emerges within this cosmos. Speaking from the standpoint of 1 of these Brazillion, I represent the human point of view. The mugwumps, Dalmatians, pond scums, and other life forms exist elsewhere...and the history of my planet, apart from the rocks and the oceans, and creepy crawly's tells the biological story of our evolution. The humans are unique in that they are one of the only lifeforms able to record information. With me so far?
You claim there is only one God yet there are three separate and individual critters who are each God.
The three are one. I am the Creator of all seen and unseen and relate to a Brazillion other species apart from yours.
My Son is the human connection. He appears to you as human. Fully human. On the Mugwumpian planet, He may well appear as Mugwumpian. On the pond scum planet, He may well appear as pond scum, though my foreknown plan for that planet is to establish communion with the chosen lifeform at a later date.
The point that I am attempting to explain to you is my belief that God never fails to show up...no matter which way He chooses to do it.
Perhaps a question for you is whether or not you choose to acknowledge Him or whether you would rather figure out everything by yourself. While I do not know, I would imagine this to be a personal thing between you and Him.
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ***
far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.- Dr.John Lennox
The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe. - Criss Jami, Killo
The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him. Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
He never forced Himself on her. He told her what he was going to do and she chose whether or not to accept it. You really need better porn.
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ***
far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.- Dr.John Lennox
The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe. - Criss Jami, Killo
The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him. Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
Nice try but it shows you are simply anther heretic and not a Trinitarian at all. The idea that the Holy Spirit is an aspect of god is blasphemy. Each is an individual under Trinitarian not none are "aspects"
Now see it you can try to explain what the Holy Spirit is in any Trinitarian universe.
I am well aware of Oneness Pentecostalism and Modalism. As for being a heretic, I would imagine that everyone is a heretic in the eyes of others unless the others share the Spirit that you(we) have. If they don't you are off to the races with a new argument and new debate! Hence why we have so many denominations even within our own club.
Some may argue that truth is relative and derived through evidence-based thinking and chosen belief. Others may claim that truth is revealed. The only problem there is that one mans revelation may be another mans heresy.
jar writes:
Now see it you can try to explain what the Holy Spirit is in any Trinitarian universe.
First I might ask whether the universe is in fact Monistic, Dualistic, or in fact Trinitarian. If we agreed that the universe was Trinitarian, as I proposed, We then get back to the idea of One Creator of all seen and unseen, One "Son" Who is the character of the Creator, and One Holy Spirit which is the ongoing presence of the Creator infused with the species who become aware of said Creator. The species can then choose whether to remain in the communion of One or whether the species chooses to think for itself and become separate. Upon reflection, this is a hard task....to attempt to explain the Holy Spirit without myself becoming separate and disconnected.
It is the bane of our existence yet an opportunity to learn more.
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ***
far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.- Dr.John Lennox
The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe. - Criss Jami, Killo
The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him. Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
First I might ask whether the universe is in fact Monistic, Dualistic, or in fact Trinitarian.
You can ask but it is a really stupid question. It is utterly and totally irrelevant.
The topic is "What is the Holy Ghost" and so far the only attempt to explain it is as some undefined aspect of god which is of course an explanation that got folk excommunicated and in fact killed.
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