God: Knowable or not Knowable?

Well, since John didn't explain it, and you cannot do better than John, it remains unexplained and Stile's argument that God is unknowable stands unrefuted.

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FYI:

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Most modern experts conclude the author [of the Gospel of John] to be an unknown non-eyewitness. Tradition ascribes the book to John the Evangelist, a disciple of Christ.

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sourceTo maintain intellectual honesty, its safer to go with the modern experts rather than tradition.

John explained it quite well to those who can hear what God is saying.To those who cannot or are unwilling to hear what God is saying, you remain in your unbelief and the GOD WHO IS is unknowable to you.

No, he did not explain how you can know if it really is god or not. Being able to hear what god is saying doesn't have anything to do with explaining how you can know if it is actually god or not. It still remains unexplained how you can know it really is god. Just saying that you know because you know doesn't explain how you know.

For you God remains unknowable because you are unwilling to believe that He exists and that God rewards and manifests Himself those who dilligently seek Him. You can go round and round in circles if you like by questioning how you can know if the true God is actually manifesting Himself to you, but those who dilligently seek Him and find Him just know because He is true to His word as revealed in the Bible. How do we know that the Bible is God's word to man? Because the things God said would happen to those who honor Jesus as Lord happens.At some point unbelievers have to be willing to get off the train of unbelief if they truly want to know if God is knowable. But you have to do it God's way, not man's way, for there is no other name under heaven whereby man can be saved other than the Name of the Lord Jesus (Acts 4:12).Blessings

Me? No. I do believe in god. And since you are unable to distinguish between the devil tricking you into thinking that he is god manifesting himself to you and god himself actually manifesting himself to you, then you cannot really know that it really is god.Claiming that you just know doesn't mean that you do know.Stile's argument is still standing unrefuted.

You may believe in god, but you don't believe in the God of the Bible. And since you are unable to believe in the God of the Bible, you are unable to distinguish between the devil tricking you anf the God who actually reveals and minifests Himself to those who honor Jesus as Lord.

If anybody needs more evidence John's caught in his own little world, I'd say this is it. Really, saying a Catholic doesn't believe in the god of the bible? Where does he get that stuff?

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I hunt for the truthWhat you can do in my country and get away with:Softdrugs? Legal!
Legal drinking age? 16!
Birth control (the pill)? Free!
Gay marriage? Legal!
Abortion? Legal!
Euthanasia? Legal!
Age of consent? 16 (14 if you have the parents permission)!Yep, only one way down for us!

But this isn't true. Unless, of course, by "the things God said would happen to those who honor Jesus as Lord" is actually "nothing special at all." Because that certainly happens, but I doubt that's what you meant.There is no special group of religious people who are "happier" than anyone else can be.There is no special group of religious people who are "mentally stronger" than anyone else can be.There is no special group of religious people who are any of these:-calmer
-more stable
-have more fun
-have less worries
-have more good things happen to them
-have less bad things happen to them
-have better luck
-have more love in their lives
-have less hatred in their lives
-have more confidence
-have less fear
-*know more about "the afterlife"
-*know more about "the unknown"
-*know more about "the supernatural"
-*know more about "God"
-*know more about "how people should live their lives"
(*here, by "know" I mean "in a sense that can be shown to be different from imagination")...in any sense that would set them apart from what any other average person is capable of. Even atheists.In fact, I'm willing to bet that you are not better than I am in any of these categories. If you can actually show me, for real, that you are actually better in any of these categores and you can show others how to achieve such, then I'm incredibly interested. I'm always looking for a way to "get better" in this life, in any way I can. (In fact, getting better is the meaning of life for me, I have dedicated myself to always exploring any avenue I possibly can in order to get better in any way)But the religious promises you're spouting forth here... they aren't required to get better at all. In fact, there are generally much easier and more effective ways to get better then what you are proposing. So much so that it's actually sort of mean, negative and evil of you to imply that the religious promises you're making are "the only" method to get better. Because they most certainly are not. Unless you can show this to be true, you are lying when you say it to be so. And there's absolutely nothing "better" about lying.Unless you're actually saying that "the things God said would happen to those who honor Jesus as Lord" is actually "nothing observably special at all in any way" and has absolutely nothing to do with getting better?And if what you're talking about doesn't actually help anyone to get better in any way at all... then why should anyone care?

1. Fuck you.
2. You don't know what I believe.
3. I could just as rightly claim that you don't believe in the god of the Bible.
4. No True Scotsman fallacyFalse premise (I do believe in the god of the Bible).But I agree that I am unable to distinguish between the devil tricking me and god actually revealing himself to me, that is my position. But it also applies to you whether you believe it or not. Unless, of course, you can show HOW to distinguish between them. But if you are unable or unwilling, then you will remain wrong and Stile will remain right.

I stand corrected. You say you believe in the God of the Bible, but it seems you don't truly "know" Him.Jesus said this in John 10:27-28, Those that hear Jesus and follow Him know the difference between the devil tricking them and Jesus speaking to them.How does one distinguish between the devil and the Lord?First, one must enter into the kingdom of God as Jesus explains in John 3:3-7, Second, follow these instructions given by Jesus in John 8:31-32, Third, follow these instructions given in James 4:7-8, BlessingsEdited by John 10:10, : No reason given.

Because of the connotation of the word "know"...If an alien shot thought waves into your head that convinced you that it was Jesus, then you would "know" this Jesus in the exact same way that you know the Jesus that you claim to know now. But you'd be wrong about it, and since you have no way of determining if it really is Jesus or not, then you don't really KNOW that it is Jesus. John 20:29

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Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

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If you do, in fact, KNOW that it is Jesus, then you no longer have any faith, as you have knowledge.Edited by Catholic Scientist, : No reason given.

Faith is both a gift of the Holy Spirit and fruit of the Holy Spirit. It is imparted to Believers in the Lord Jesus Christ when they are born into the kingdom of God, and it grows in our lives as we yield ourselves to the Lordship of Jesus in our life.In John 16 Jesus declared this would happen to those enter into the kingdom of God, The Jesus that I "know", love and serve does exactly what He says He will do according to the words He has spoken in His word. The Holy Spirit then takes the things of Jesus and discloses them to me as I live by faith. Just because one can have knowledge of the things of Jesus does not mean that one does not still live by faith and by every word that proceeds (not preceeded) out of the mouth of God (Matt 4:4).Blessings

The greatest trick of the devil is making you believe you're too enlightened to be tricked by him.Really, John 10:10, how hard can it be to figure out that there are simple reasons, particularly when dealing with the supernatural, that nothing can be certain. We've been here before.AbE:See, John 10:10, you've been fooled here. That's not what it says. It says:

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John 10:27-28

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When you can snatch this pebble from my hand, it is time for you to go.

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And because you only take your own counsel, you'll never have a way to dispute this.Ab2E:

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Matt 17:20

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And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.

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Have you ever moved a mountain John 10:10? Want to go outside right now and give it a try; then come back in and tell us how it worked out?Edited by lyx2no, : No reason given.Edited by lyx2no, : No reason given.Edited by lyx2no, : Spelling & style

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Genesis 2
17 But of the ponderosa pine, thou shalt not eat of it; for in the day that thou shinniest thereof thou shalt sorely learn of thy nakedness.
18 And we all live happily ever after.

I don't think I can say my point better than the way that lyx2no2 said it:

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The greatest trick of the devil is making you believe you're too enlightened to be tricked by him.

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You're convinced you can't be wrong and that is a very dangerous place to be. Faith is belief in the absense of knowledge. Having knowledge negates faith.

Short, sweet and effective. The best kind of reply.Everything I've said and described in this thread can boil down to this one simple statement. I just tend to be verbose and unable to focus my thoughts so efficiently