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Author Topic:   Evolution or Creation
iceage 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5915 days)
Posts: 1024
From: Pacific Northwest
Joined: 09-08-2003


Message 198 of 301 (396776)
04-22-2007 12:33 AM
Reply to: Message 197 by ICANT
04-22-2007 12:24 AM


Re: Biologist
ICANT writes:
I have studied about those religions a lot more than I have about Atheist and evolution.
Didn't i read somewhere here that claimed you became a committed Christian at a very early age after reading about the afterlife benefits package? If that is true, sounds like your survey of other religious packages was either abbreviated or biased.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 197 by ICANT, posted 04-22-2007 12:24 AM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 200 by ICANT, posted 04-22-2007 12:59 AM iceage has replied

iceage 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5915 days)
Posts: 1024
From: Pacific Northwest
Joined: 09-08-2003


Message 202 of 301 (396781)
04-22-2007 1:13 AM
Reply to: Message 200 by ICANT
04-22-2007 12:59 AM


Re: Biologist
ICANT writes:
Probably biased.
At least you are being honest.
The issue is that a biased review of other religions is typically not very valid. Apostasy or conversion from one religion to another is rare.
Continuing in this vein of personal honesty, if you were born into a Islamic, Jewish or Hindu culture, with your parents and grandparents committed adherents of one of these religions, do think you might have accept one of these paths?
At which time, from this vantage point, it would have been easy to dismiss Christianity as a misguided offshoot of one true and real God.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 200 by ICANT, posted 04-22-2007 12:59 AM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 211 by ICANT, posted 04-23-2007 5:11 PM iceage has not replied

iceage 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5915 days)
Posts: 1024
From: Pacific Northwest
Joined: 09-08-2003


Message 208 of 301 (396829)
04-22-2007 12:09 PM
Reply to: Message 204 by dwise1
04-22-2007 4:02 AM


Re: Biologist
Thanks dwise1 for your insightful posts on this thread. Your posts have provided inspiration and some interesting points to ponder on this dreary Sunday morning.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 204 by dwise1, posted 04-22-2007 4:02 AM dwise1 has not replied

iceage 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5915 days)
Posts: 1024
From: Pacific Northwest
Joined: 09-08-2003


Message 227 of 301 (397148)
04-24-2007 5:35 PM
Reply to: Message 217 by ICANT
04-24-2007 2:41 AM


Re: Everything Is A Choice
ICANT writes:
I thought I said my God had supplied everything I needed. Lets see I have a beautiful waterfront home, a 2007 Entourage van, a 2007 Nissan pickup, and a farm. They are all paid for all I have to pay is the taxes each year to the government to keep them.
Of all the emphasis on homosexuality and abortion within modern Christian circles today it is interesting that Jesus instead emphasized wealth and comfort as a stumbling blocks to following him. There are numerous quotes attributed to Jesus on this issue - Ringo point out just few.
Right now there are people going hungry and are underclothed, why you sit in your self-satisfied comfort and material excess.
You are essentially denying the equivalent of Jesus the basics of human necessities while you drive about in you new vehicles and enjoy the good life.
Matthew 25 writes:
41 "Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink,
43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.'
44 "They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?'
45 "He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'
46 "Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."
Maybe this is what Jesus means that the way is narrow - maybe the way is narrower than you think.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 217 by ICANT, posted 04-24-2007 2:41 AM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 231 by ICANT, posted 04-24-2007 9:20 PM iceage has replied

iceage 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5915 days)
Posts: 1024
From: Pacific Northwest
Joined: 09-08-2003


Message 237 of 301 (397196)
04-24-2007 10:07 PM
Reply to: Message 231 by ICANT
04-24-2007 9:20 PM


Re: Everything Is A Choice
That is such a flawed analysis, with insertion of extracurricular interpretation, I don't even know where to start.
Just to keep it simple...
ICANT writes:
Verse 40 says the reason is because ye have done it unto the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
Of which you immediately follow with....
ICANT writes:
The judgment seat of Christ has taken place 7 years prior to this event.
So since I am ruling with Christ What does this have to do with me?
That does not even make sense.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 231 by ICANT, posted 04-24-2007 9:20 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 240 by ICANT, posted 04-24-2007 10:59 PM iceage has replied

iceage 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5915 days)
Posts: 1024
From: Pacific Northwest
Joined: 09-08-2003


Message 241 of 301 (397202)
04-24-2007 11:01 PM
Reply to: Message 238 by ICANT
04-24-2007 10:10 PM


Re: Everything Is A Choice
ICANT, there is a common repeated theme of several of Jesus's parables where the rich and poor are concerned. That fact, that this theme is stressed over and over should not go unnoticed.
Further the treatment of the least of society is touched on not only in Matt 25 but also in Luke 16.
In Luke 16 the rich man's claims to external virtue did not compensate for his neglect of the poor man Lazarus. Simple lesson that a child could understand.
But apply your methodology here, Jesus is simply referring to some "rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen" that "lived in luxury every day" - he was not referring to a special redeemed child of god such as yourself - these are lesson for others.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 238 by ICANT, posted 04-24-2007 10:10 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 246 by ICANT, posted 04-24-2007 11:54 PM iceage has replied

iceage 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5915 days)
Posts: 1024
From: Pacific Northwest
Joined: 09-08-2003


Message 242 of 301 (397205)
04-24-2007 11:15 PM
Reply to: Message 240 by ICANT
04-24-2007 10:59 PM


Re: Everything Is A Choice
ICANT writes:
iceage, do you have any understanding of the end time events that will take place at the second coming of Jesus
And what does flawed eschatology have to do with your responsibilities of those who hunger and applying the golden rule?
You are putting up a large smoke screen.
BTW I can direct you to many "Born again child of the King" scholars that would disagree strongly with your chain of events. I recommend you post this as a new thread you will find disagreements by others who consider themselves "born again".
It is not, as you suggest, merely the confusion of those not born again.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 240 by ICANT, posted 04-24-2007 10:59 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 244 by ICANT, posted 04-24-2007 11:27 PM iceage has not replied

iceage 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5915 days)
Posts: 1024
From: Pacific Northwest
Joined: 09-08-2003


Message 251 of 301 (397221)
04-25-2007 1:13 AM
Reply to: Message 246 by ICANT
04-24-2007 11:54 PM


Re: Everything Is A Choice
ICANT writes:
Spin Matt. 25 any way you want but it remains that Jesus is judging the nations for their treatment of the Jewish nation as God had promised Abraham.
Are you suggesting that God will reward eternal life and deal out eternal punishment based on nationality? Abraham is not mentioned anywhere and the "least of these" is not a code word for the Jewish nation.
The division is based on the acts of kindness and mercy done by people to the disadvantaged. Further, Jesus identifies such kindness with kindness towards himself. A simple message that I believe your are trying to make more complex for obvious reasons.
matthew 25 writes:
45"He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'
46"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."
That is a personal message not one to nations.
ICANT writes:
Are you saying then that the rich man went to hell because he would not feed and clothe Lazarus?
There are most likely parallel meanings (as is the case with Matt 25). However the central issue of social injustice is in escapable - that those with plenty who ignore those with needs will be punished.
This is inline with Christ's character that repeatedly spoke of not only detachment of possessions and relationships but even your own life - he did not speak of comfort and material blessing.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 246 by ICANT, posted 04-24-2007 11:54 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 256 by ICANT, posted 04-25-2007 7:18 AM iceage has replied

iceage 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5915 days)
Posts: 1024
From: Pacific Northwest
Joined: 09-08-2003


Message 269 of 301 (397277)
04-25-2007 10:43 AM
Reply to: Message 256 by ICANT
04-25-2007 7:18 AM


Re: Everything Is A Choice
ICANT writes:
The Bible plainly says nations. I can't help how you interpet it.
ICANT answer this: Are we going to be judged because of our nationality?
Other translations are clearer.
NIV Matt25:32 writes:
All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.
It clearly says people. Which makes sense in the context.
ICANT writes:
Jesus plainly said my brethren.
To be a brother of Christ you have to either be a Jew or be a Born again child of God.
So have it your way. If there are Christians (or Jews) that go without basic needs, while you live in plenty, you will be judged as is clearly noted in Matt 25 and Luke 16.
ICANT writes:
It makes no difference what you or I say the Bible says. It only matters what God says in His Word.
You are working overtime, to change the obvious meaning of the text.
What about Luke 16, the principal was stressed again. As noted eariler Jesus spoke often of detachment of possessions, family relationships and even your own life. This is why Jesus gave the parable about the Pearl of great price. However, you want it all, you want the farm and and Pearl.
Earlier on you mentioned you had your bases covered, playing a fools game of Pascal's Wager. You reject evolution because it "nothing to offer" while Christianity offers the survival of your ego. Later I realized you have created a modified version of Christianity.
Edited by iceage, : No reason given.
Edited by iceage, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 256 by ICANT, posted 04-25-2007 7:18 AM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 274 by ICANT, posted 04-25-2007 12:11 PM iceage has replied

iceage 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5915 days)
Posts: 1024
From: Pacific Northwest
Joined: 09-08-2003


Message 276 of 301 (397362)
04-25-2007 4:26 PM
Reply to: Message 274 by ICANT
04-25-2007 12:11 PM


Re: Everything Is A Choice
ICANT writes:
You believe what you are told in the NIV perversion of the Bible if you want I believe what the Greek says myself.
ICANT I will ask again. Does the entire passage make sense from a "nations" point of view....
  • Are we going to be judged because of our nationality ?
  • How does a nation visit someone in prison ?
  • How does a nation visit someone sick ?
    The judgment of Matt 25:40-46 is about individuals.
    ICANT writes:
    Get over the false belief that you have to do a bunch of good works to go to heaven.
    This false belief is written explicitly in Bible and was repeatedly stressed by Jesus. What of the message of Luke 16? What is the flavor of Matthew 13?
    Matthew 13 writes:
    45 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a merchant man, seeking goodly pearls:
    46 Who, when he had found one pearl of great price, went and sold all that he had, and bought it.
    The meaning is the Kingdom of Heaven was of such extreme value that a Christ follower should gladly be willing to give up their wealth and comfort to obtain it.
    The overarching point is that you do not believe in evolution because of what supposedly you believe the Bible says; but interpret the Bible liberally to fit your lifestyle.
    Edited by iceage, : No reason given.

  • This message is a reply to:
     Message 274 by ICANT, posted 04-25-2007 12:11 PM ICANT has not replied

    Replies to this message:
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