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Author Topic:   Evolution or Creation
LinearAq
Member (Idle past 4697 days)
Posts: 598
From: Pocomoke City, MD
Joined: 11-03-2004


Message 50 of 301 (395917)
04-18-2007 12:13 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by ICANT
04-17-2007 10:42 PM


Re: Re-Answers
ICANT writes:
Now this is what my God did for me. He sent His only begotten Son to die in my place so I could spend eternity with Him in Heaven.
And YES I CHOSE to accept the free gift offered by God.
Just as each of you have chosen to believe what you do.
But that has nothing to do with the question.
Well...yes it does have something to do with the question.
It has been pointed out that you cannot choose to believe. You even state that you didn't choose your belief. You already believed that God sent His Son to die for you. You chose to accept the gift that you already believed was offered.
How is your choice to do something within your belief system result in the conclusion that everyone chooses their beliefs?
Your question from the OP is framed by the belief that you hold. You believe concluding that the Theory of Evolution is true based on the evidence, requires you to renounce your God. Hence the either/or question.
It's like saying that we must choose between serving a steak with squash or liver with a baked potato. Since we know that there can be different food combinations than these, why would we say to choose either one?
The only thing anyone can do is try to clarify the parameters of the question by asking why you think that those are the only two choices ("evolution and athiesm" or "creation and theism")?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by ICANT, posted 04-17-2007 10:42 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 54 by ICANT, posted 04-18-2007 4:54 PM LinearAq has not replied

LinearAq
Member (Idle past 4697 days)
Posts: 598
From: Pocomoke City, MD
Joined: 11-03-2004


Message 95 of 301 (396269)
04-19-2007 12:57 PM
Reply to: Message 93 by fallacycop
04-19-2007 10:47 AM


(maybe) Everything in Life is (not) a Choice
Do you think that God is interested in populating Heaven with people who saw belief as a matter of "hedging their bets"; people who thought they could game the system by professing belief just to avoid the hot place? That's quite a scam you people are running.
fallacycop writes:
That, of couse, is the right question to make. I asked something in that vein earlier in this thread, but got no straight answer. I wouldn't be surprised if you don't get one either. It seems that ICANT stands for I can't deal with hard questions.
Insults aside, that question is not really related to answering the OP, is it?
However, Archer's interaction with ICANT, clarifying the belief choice or nonchoice, helps define that question more clearly.
To further understand the OP question, I think we should explore ICANT's reasons for placing such a limited choice in front of himself.
For ICANT: What are your reasons for stating that concluding the Theory of Evolution is true requires you to be an athiest?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 93 by fallacycop, posted 04-19-2007 10:47 AM fallacycop has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 102 by ICANT, posted 04-19-2007 3:19 PM LinearAq has replied

LinearAq
Member (Idle past 4697 days)
Posts: 598
From: Pocomoke City, MD
Joined: 11-03-2004


Message 116 of 301 (396335)
04-19-2007 4:44 PM
Reply to: Message 102 by ICANT
04-19-2007 3:19 PM


Re: (maybe) Everything in Life is (not) a Choice
ICANT writes:
If I believe that man evolved from a single cell life form that no one knows where, how or why it exists in a Universe that came from an infinitely small nothing, I have to discard the Bible completely therefore there is no God that created the heavens and the earth and everything in it. If I believe in no God that would make me an atheist.
How God did it could be that He formed the first single celled life form. God could have just as easily made the physical laws of the universe so that life had to form and then evolve. The soul could have been imparted to our species when we evolved enough to need the concept of morality.
The why(purpose) of our existance is not related to the method that produced our existance. Even with evolution being a fact, the why of our existance doesn't change from that stated in the Bible....to bring glory to God.
Which would you admire more, a person who builds a car or a person who designs a system to build lots of cars. Frankly, I think God is more glorified by the system He built to produce these myriad life forms that continue after billions of years. But that's just me.
A little nit. In message 109 you state that Genesis says all life came from the dust of the ground. I believe you forgot Genesis 1:20 and 21:
quote:
20And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.
21And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
Looks like the birds (and bats?) and fish came from the water.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 102 by ICANT, posted 04-19-2007 3:19 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 119 by ICANT, posted 04-19-2007 5:12 PM LinearAq has replied

LinearAq
Member (Idle past 4697 days)
Posts: 598
From: Pocomoke City, MD
Joined: 11-03-2004


Message 143 of 301 (396475)
04-20-2007 9:22 AM
Reply to: Message 119 by ICANT
04-19-2007 5:12 PM


Re: But it is a Choice
ICANT writes:
If the recorded things God said and did in the day of Creation did not happen exactly as He said that day (all in one day) then God is a Liar, and none of the Bible is true.
So, if one thing in the Bible turns out to be untrue then the whole Bible is untrue?
I guess you better become an athiest or at least move to a faith not based upon the Old Testament because:
quote:
Leviticus 11:6
The rabbit, though it chews the cud, does not have a split hoof; it is unclean for you.
Deuteronomy 14:7
However, of those that chew the cud or that have a split hoof completely divided you may not eat the camel, the rabbit or the coney. Although they chew the cud, they do not have a split hoof; they are ceremonially unclean for you.
Neither rabbits nor coneys chew cud.
That is, assuming that one wrong fact undoes all truth in a manuscript. However, if you accept the truth of scripture despite this minor discrepancy(among others), why must the problems of the creation story get in the way of belief in the power of Christ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 119 by ICANT, posted 04-19-2007 5:12 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 155 by ICANT, posted 04-20-2007 1:08 PM LinearAq has replied

LinearAq
Member (Idle past 4697 days)
Posts: 598
From: Pocomoke City, MD
Joined: 11-03-2004


Message 161 of 301 (396549)
04-20-2007 4:39 PM
Reply to: Message 155 by ICANT
04-20-2007 1:08 PM


No conflict?
ICANT writes:
I think I pointed out in the op that the manuscripts have been copied and possibly have had things inserted by the scribes.
Were we supposed to critique your entire OP where you twisted around the scriptures because you thought somehow the scriptures got mixed up? So we have a teleporting man existing before the earth was void? Forgive me for thinking that you took the Bible literally when you said that if you couldn't believe Genesis, you couldn't believe rest of the Bible. Obviously, you don't believe Genesis as it was written so you must not believe the rest of the Bible as written.
Now I am a realist and I know man has copied the manuscripts and has probably arranged things to suit themselves along the way and even added and took away things.
How do you know that man hasn't added the entire creation story?
ICANT writes:
But I find no conflicts in the Genesis account of creation.
In fact there is no conflict with Genesis account of creation and Science. Until you get past the first single cell life form that nobody knows where, how or why it appeared in a universe that came from an infinitely small nothing (singularity) that nobody knows where, how, or why it appeared.
No conflict, except for that little water-existing-before-stars thing...oh, and that minor night-and-day-separation-before-the-sun-was-created thing. Yep...looks like the description of the creation of the universe that we see in Genesis closely matches the current theories from modern cosmology. {end sarcasm}
Give me a break! The Genesis account isn't any closer to "Science" before the first single cell than it is after. Even your reordering of the events does not make the two mesh any better.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 155 by ICANT, posted 04-20-2007 1:08 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 172 by ICANT, posted 04-21-2007 7:22 PM LinearAq has not replied

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