Evolution or Creation

That's what you want? Just "promises"? Then atheism has nothing for you. There are no promises that come with atheism. If it's promises you want, perhaps you should join one of those 100 virgins religions? Or maybe I could create a religion for you. I could certainly give you plenty of focused-on-you promises.No, there are no promises with atheism. Atheism (generally speaking) is simply not believing in God(s). However, regardless of the dictionary definition difficulties, let's talk about what you want to talk about.Atheism (your naturlaistic-methodist thinking version of it) also has no promises. It is simply admitting that we do not know that which we cannot witness. Now, there are certain assurances that come with this. That is, one would be assured to not be guessing, and to be following the accuracy of this universe. You would be assured that everything you know is actually real, and tangible, and in existance. You would understand that there are things you can imagine that may or may not be real. However, you will have to reserve judgement on their reality until such time as you acquire some sort of objective evidence of their existance.No promises, just a calm, strong foothold in knowing that what you understand to be true can actually be proved and replicated at anytime. Just knowing that you are not fooling yourself, or being deceived by anyone else, and you're far from any involvement in any sort of conspiracy.Belief in God, however firm, is still just a guess. A promise of eternal life, however voraciously defended, is still nothing more then words on a page, or sounds in the air. Neither idea is as firmly rooted in objective truth as atheism (still dealing with your naturalist-methodistic idea of atheism).ICANT, what do you want in your life?
ICANT, what do you want for your grand-son's life?ICANT, if what you want is promises, your "atheism" has nothing to offer you.
ICANT, if what you want is objective truth, your "atheism" is the only path that currently provides this.

You seem to keep asking this question. After everyone has given you plenty of answers. Do you not like the answers? Are they not good enough for you (certainly acceptable)?I'll repeat my answer from Message 48:

quote:

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ICANT, what do you want in your life?
ICANT, what do you want for your grand-son's life?

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ICANT, if what you want is promises, your "atheism" has nothing to offer you.
ICANT, if what you want is objective truth, your "atheism" is the only path that currently provides this.

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But, as many others have pointed out to you, you don't even have to turn to your "atheism" in order to follow objective truth (it is a false dichotomy). You only need to be willing to accept things that can be shown to you. There is no need to give up God. There is no need to stop believing in God. There is no need to stop being a Christian. You only have to stop accepting things people tell you, and start accepting the things that can be shown to you. Is that what's wrong? Does accepting things that can be shown as real/reproducible/objective to you scare you, or seem evil in some way?

I was going to say that I don't want to convince you of anything. But perhaps that isn't true. I don't want to convince you of anything specific like this, but I do suppose I want to convince you of the existance of an alternative thinking process. Your welcome. And it's true, specifically for you personally, ICANT. As long as you do not want to seek objective truth, atheism has nothing to offer you.It still comes down to what you want. If you want any popular way to feel good, and to feel happy, and to feel fulfilled, and to feel like your life had meaning, and to feel that you'll live forever. Then your current choice of religious answers will fit you perfectly and I'd never try to alter that from you.However, if you're interested in objective truth, and understanding how this universe we currently live in works. If you want to feel good, and happy, and fulfilled, and have meaning in concrete ways that you can be assured you're not being fooled by yourself or anyone else. Then I have an alternative method of thinking for you to consider. I have seen the Bible's answers as well. And then I look around me to how this universe is. And I have found nothing that supports these answers. I am not sure that what is written in the Bible is actually what has happened in this world. I could accept it, yet I care deeply about objective truth. I cannot personally accept something that is written, or told to me, without having it shown to me that such a thing is true. No matter who has written or told me such things.Well, I can, but only for minor issues that have no real importance. For anything of larger consequence, I need to make sure I'm not fooling myself, or being fooled by others. The Bible alone does not pass this test. Yes. I do know how stupid this can sound. However, if that's all we are able to know, does it make sense to grab some other answer that we are not sure could be fooling us?Maybe I'll try a little parable...--------------------------
Let's say I'm playing an old Sierra computer game. Let's say I'm playing King's Quest I. This is an adventure game, the player is a knight and is allowed to roam a basic 3D world, and interact with it in the hopes of solving problems and completing the game (becoming a King).Let's say the player of this game is wondering what happened before King's Quest I.Objective Truth Player: I have studied this game as much as I can, yet I cannot find anything that tells me what happened before the game started. No storyline, no background. It just seems to start with being a knight. What happened before King's Quest I? I don't know, perhaps it is impossible to know.Promise-Seeking Player: I have found the Strategy Guide to Police Quest. It is all about a very similar 3D world game. It explains all the same actions and abilities of King's Quest I. It says here that Police Quest was created with the help of Jim Walls! Therefore, before King's Quest I there was Jim Walls!!
--------------------------The point is:The Objective Truth Seeker is content with not knowing all the answers, as long as the answers he does know are based in objective truth within his reality.The Promise Seeker is content with any answer as long as it came from a seemingly authoritative source. There is little care if this answer corresponds exactly with reality.So really, ICANT, it still depends on what you want.Do you want promises from extremely authoritative sources?Or do you want to understand objective truth for yourself?If you are content with trusting your authoritative sources, then you do not need anything more.If you have a desire to know for yourself the objective truth of this world, there have been many before you who have done a lot of hard work. Their information is available for you if you'd like to see it. And you can see this information, understand it, and even fully agree with it without losing your faith, your God, or your Christianity.

You keep bringing this up and saying this as if it should really mean something incredible to anybody. I'd be willing to bet that the large majority of people on this forum would refuse the same offer for much lesser promises than "eternal life".I wouldn't accept that money if someone was going to take my girfriend away.
I wouldn't accept that money if someone was going to simply cut off the hand of a stranger to me.Everyone has personal convictions that there is no monetary value that can be placed above them. To think this bribe is showing anyone something they haven't thought of before, or some level of conviction that others don't have is kind of naive. Again, this isn't really anything new to anybody. Almost everyone has some sort of personal conviction that they would choose death before overturning. If you feel that people are not understanding you, perhaps you could try explaining what you are saying, then? No, not really. I've clearly explained what I've meant by that everytime I've said it:IF you want to have promises rather than search for objective truth, THEN your strange notion of "atheism" (some sort of strict version of extreme naturalism) has nothing for you personally, ICANT.Your mis-quote of my ideas is slightly telling. Perhaps it is you who is not understanding what is being said?