Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 86 (8943 total)
39 online now:
AZPaul3, dwise1, Faith, GDR, Minnemooseus (Adminnemooseus), PaulK, Pressie (7 members, 32 visitors)
Newest Member: LaLa dawn
Post Volume: Total: 863,949 Year: 18,985/19,786 Month: 1,405/1,705 Week: 211/446 Day: 9/98 Hour: 0/3


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Evolution or Creation
iceage 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4205 days)
Posts: 1024
From: Pacific Northwest
Joined: 09-08-2003


Message 241 of 301 (397202)
04-24-2007 11:01 PM
Reply to: Message 238 by ICANT
04-24-2007 10:10 PM


Re: Everything Is A Choice
ICANT, there is a common repeated theme of several of Jesus's parables where the rich and poor are concerned. That fact, that this theme is stressed over and over should not go unnoticed.

Further the treatment of the least of society is touched on not only in Matt 25 but also in Luke 16.

In Luke 16 the rich man's claims to external virtue did not compensate for his neglect of the poor man Lazarus. Simple lesson that a child could understand.

But apply your methodology here, Jesus is simply referring to some "rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen" that "lived in luxury every day" - he was not referring to a special redeemed child of god such as yourself - these are lesson for others.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 238 by ICANT, posted 04-24-2007 10:10 PM ICANT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 246 by ICANT, posted 04-24-2007 11:54 PM iceage has responded

iceage 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4205 days)
Posts: 1024
From: Pacific Northwest
Joined: 09-08-2003


Message 242 of 301 (397205)
04-24-2007 11:15 PM
Reply to: Message 240 by ICANT
04-24-2007 10:59 PM


Re: Everything Is A Choice
ICANT writes:

iceage, do you have any understanding of the end time events that will take place at the second coming of Jesus

And what does flawed eschatology have to do with your responsibilities of those who hunger and applying the golden rule?

You are putting up a large smoke screen.

BTW I can direct you to many "Born again child of the King" scholars that would disagree strongly with your chain of events. I recommend you post this as a new thread you will find disagreements by others who consider themselves "born again".

It is not, as you suggest, merely the confusion of those not born again.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 240 by ICANT, posted 04-24-2007 10:59 PM ICANT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 244 by ICANT, posted 04-24-2007 11:27 PM iceage has not yet responded

ICANT
Member
Posts: 6259
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 243 of 301 (397206)
04-24-2007 11:22 PM
Reply to: Message 239 by ringo
04-24-2007 10:39 PM


Re-Blessings
at least, he can't take his earthly riches with him

You got that right. That is why everything I have will go to the Church when the last one, My Wife or Myself dies.

Show us chapter and verse where Jesus blessed His children with material goods.

quote:
Phil 4:19 (KJS) But my God shall supply all your need according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus.

John 10:10 (KJS) The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have [it] more abundantly.


Paul said God would supply all my needs, according to His riches.
I need a house, I need transportation, I need a truck for the farm, almost forgot need the farm for the house to reside on.

Jesus said: "I am come that they might have life, and that they might have (life) more abundantly.

BTW there are enough scriptures that apply to me without trying to apply those that apply to other people to me. I have a hard enough time with mine.


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 239 by ringo, posted 04-24-2007 10:39 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 245 by ringo, posted 04-24-2007 11:34 PM ICANT has responded

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6259
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 244 of 301 (397207)
04-24-2007 11:27 PM
Reply to: Message 242 by iceage
04-24-2007 11:15 PM


Re: Everything Is A Choice
It is not, as you suggest, merely the confusion of those not born again.

I don't suggest it the Bible declares it.

quote:
1Cor 2:14 (KJS) But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 242 by iceage, posted 04-24-2007 11:15 PM iceage has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17444
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 245 of 301 (397209)
04-24-2007 11:34 PM
Reply to: Message 243 by ICANT
04-24-2007 11:22 PM


Re: Re-Blessings
ICANT writes:

Jesus said: "I am come that they might have life, and that they might have (life) more abundantly.

It's sad that you think "more abundant life" has anything to do with the size of your bank account.


Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC

This message is a reply to:
 Message 243 by ICANT, posted 04-24-2007 11:22 PM ICANT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 247 by ICANT, posted 04-24-2007 11:56 PM ringo has responded

ICANT
Member
Posts: 6259
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 246 of 301 (397213)
04-24-2007 11:54 PM
Reply to: Message 241 by iceage
04-24-2007 11:01 PM


Re: Everything Is A Choice
Further the treatment of the least of society is touched on not only in Matt 25

Spin Matt. 25 any way you want but it remains that Jesus is judging the nations for their treatment of the Jewish nation as God had promised Abraham.

quote:
Gene 12:3 (KJS) And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

In Luke 16 the rich man's claims to external virtue did not compensate for his neglect of the poor man Lazarus.

Are you saying then that the rich man went to hell because he would not feed and clothe Lazarus?


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 241 by iceage, posted 04-24-2007 11:01 PM iceage has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 251 by iceage, posted 04-25-2007 1:13 AM ICANT has responded

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6259
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 247 of 301 (397214)
04-24-2007 11:56 PM
Reply to: Message 245 by ringo
04-24-2007 11:34 PM


Re: Re-Blessings
It's sad that you think "more abundant life" has anything to do with the size of your bank account.

Who other that you said anything about the size of their bank account?


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 245 by ringo, posted 04-24-2007 11:34 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 248 by ringo, posted 04-25-2007 12:00 AM ICANT has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17444
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 248 of 301 (397216)
04-25-2007 12:00 AM
Reply to: Message 247 by ICANT
04-24-2007 11:56 PM


Re: Re-Blessings
ICANT writes:

Who other that you said anything about the size of their bank account?

You were the one who brought up material goods as a "benefit" of being one of God's children. You have spent the whole thread talking about how God has blessed you materially.

The rest of us have been talking about the more abstract benefits of accepting the truth, but you don't seem interested in them.


Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC

This message is a reply to:
 Message 247 by ICANT, posted 04-24-2007 11:56 PM ICANT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 249 by ICANT, posted 04-25-2007 12:36 AM ringo has responded

ICANT
Member
Posts: 6259
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 249 of 301 (397217)
04-25-2007 12:36 AM
Reply to: Message 248 by ringo
04-25-2007 12:00 AM


Re: Re-Blessings
You were the one who brought up material goods as a "benefit" of being one of God's children. You have spent the whole thread talking about how God has blessed you materially.

God has blessed me materially, He has blessed me physically, He has blessed me with the most wonderful woman in the world, He has blessed me with the most wonderful Church in the world, He has blessed me with some of the most wonderful opportunities in the world.

I have been privileged to go overseas on many mission trips. I am not going to tell you how much of the things I have done that you accuse me of not doing because if I did you would say I was bragging.
I won't tell you how many years of those I spent working that I was pastoring small churches that could not afford a pastor.

Yes God has been good to me and for me. BTW the bank account is small. So God is going to have to take care of my needs until He calls me home on His retirement plan.


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 248 by ringo, posted 04-25-2007 12:00 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 250 by ringo, posted 04-25-2007 12:55 AM ICANT has not yet responded
 Message 255 by nator, posted 04-25-2007 7:10 AM ICANT has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17444
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 250 of 301 (397220)
04-25-2007 12:55 AM
Reply to: Message 249 by ICANT
04-25-2007 12:36 AM


Re: Re-Blessings
ICANT writes:

I won't tell you how many years of those I spent working that I was pastoring small churches that could not afford a pastor.

I have no doubt that you have earned (in the earthly sense) all that you have. I am not questioning your right to earthly goods.

I'm just wondering about your priorities.

As I've already mentioned, the truth about evolution doesn't seem to interest you. Making false accusations against scientists doesn't seem to bother you.

You have talked about material goods and about your reward in the afterlife. I'm not seeing that you value integrity in this life very highly.


Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC

This message is a reply to:
 Message 249 by ICANT, posted 04-25-2007 12:36 AM ICANT has not yet responded

iceage 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4205 days)
Posts: 1024
From: Pacific Northwest
Joined: 09-08-2003


Message 251 of 301 (397221)
04-25-2007 1:13 AM
Reply to: Message 246 by ICANT
04-24-2007 11:54 PM


Re: Everything Is A Choice
ICANT writes:

Spin Matt. 25 any way you want but it remains that Jesus is judging the nations for their treatment of the Jewish nation as God had promised Abraham.

Are you suggesting that God will reward eternal life and deal out eternal punishment based on nationality? Abraham is not mentioned anywhere and the "least of these" is not a code word for the Jewish nation.

The division is based on the acts of kindness and mercy done by people to the disadvantaged. Further, Jesus identifies such kindness with kindness towards himself. A simple message that I believe your are trying to make more complex for obvious reasons.

matthew 25 writes:


45"He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'

46"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."

That is a personal message not one to nations.

ICANT writes:

Are you saying then that the rich man went to hell because he would not feed and clothe Lazarus?

There are most likely parallel meanings (as is the case with Matt 25). However the central issue of social injustice is in escapable - that those with plenty who ignore those with needs will be punished.

This is inline with Christ's character that repeatedly spoke of not only detachment of possessions and relationships but even your own life - he did not speak of comfort and material blessing.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 246 by ICANT, posted 04-24-2007 11:54 PM ICANT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 256 by ICANT, posted 04-25-2007 7:18 AM iceage has responded

Archer Opteryx
Member (Idle past 1888 days)
Posts: 1811
From: East Asia
Joined: 08-16-2006


Message 252 of 301 (397229)
04-25-2007 2:54 AM
Reply to: Message 217 by ICANT
04-24-2007 2:41 AM


Willed Belief, or, Let's Make a Deal!
I Cant:

Now if I was to tell you that in l965 science said I was dead for 3 hours and 20 minutes, and in that time I saw the City The New Jerusalem and the river of life that flows from the throne of God you would say, I was crazy, went off the deep end, was deluded or many other things you could think of. So I won't tell you that.

Too bad then. Until you tell me, you don't know what I would say.

You can only nurture your 'chosen belief' about what what I would say. That is a conjecture you have chosen not to test against reality.

You choose to believe man and man's wisdom.

I choose nothing of the kind.

Belief is an automatic, honest response that arises in me when something strikes me as credible. It is a response far less likely to arise in me, I notice, when a proposition seems incredible or insufficiently demonstrated.

Can't help it. Just happens that way. It's how belief works.

Your beliefs work the same way. Your real beliefs, I mean.

One cannot choose to believe. One is convinced or one isn't. Beliefs are those things you feel you know, really know, even when you are alone.

One can choose alignments, though. One can choose manifestos and creeds, which can then be regurgitated when one wants to make a ritual declaration of loyalty...

Now my testimony: I believe God.
I believe God...
I believe...

I believe...
I believe...
I believe...
I believe...
I believe...
I believe...
I believe...
I believe...
I believe...
I believe...
I believe...
I believe...
I believe...
I believe...

I believe Jesus...
I believe...
I believe...
I believe...
I believe...
I believe...
I choose to believe all these things...
I choose to believe God.

Lets see I have a beautiful waterfront home, a 2007 Entourage van, a 2007 Nissan pickup, and a farm. They are all paid for all I have to pay is the taxes each year to the government to keep them.

. . . .

My God has supplied all these things.

Atheism would have given me the following:
DrJones told me...
Doddy told me...
Stile said...
Ringo said...

Would you like to add anything?

No. But God would.

He says to tell you that if you make three more testimonies like the one above, he'll throw in a free GPS with that 2007 Nissan pickup.

Do you choose to believe God, or not?

____

Edited by Archer Opterix, : html.

Edited by Archer Opterix, : ongoing quest for literary perfection.


Archer

All species are transitional.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 217 by ICANT, posted 04-24-2007 2:41 AM ICANT has not yet responded

Larni
Member
Posts: 3990
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 253 of 301 (397233)
04-25-2007 3:55 AM
Reply to: Message 235 by ICANT
04-24-2007 9:54 PM


Re: Biologist
Are you aware that biological evolution only works on living things?

If you are not it would explain you comment and would indicate further research on your part is required.

If you are aware of this then you position is idiotic.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 235 by ICANT, posted 04-24-2007 9:54 PM ICANT has not yet responded

  
RickJB
Member (Idle past 3280 days)
Posts: 917
From: London, UK
Joined: 04-14-2006


Message 254 of 301 (397235)
04-25-2007 5:03 AM
Reply to: Message 234 by ICANT
04-24-2007 9:50 PM


Re: Fraud
ICANT writes:

If you want to refute something refute:

Cladistics, which the Museum has played an important role in developing, is the grouping of organisms by shared, specialized characteristics; each time a new evolutionary feature appears, a new branch grows on the evolutionary tree, comprising organisms that have both the old traits and the new one. Thus the display in the back shows that some later horses, such as Calippus, are actually smaller than earlier ones, and that other later horses, such as Neohipparion, still had three toes. This display is therefore both a classic demonstration of evolution and a paradigm of scientific method at the Museum.

Okay, I'm stumped. What am I supposed to be refuting here?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 234 by ICANT, posted 04-24-2007 9:50 PM ICANT has not yet responded

nator
Member (Idle past 460 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 255 of 301 (397245)
04-25-2007 7:10 AM
Reply to: Message 249 by ICANT
04-25-2007 12:36 AM


Re: Re-Blessings
quote:
BTW the bank account is small.

Excuse me?

You own a farm with a home on it, another waterfront home, and two brand new expensive automobiles.

I am going to assume that these are not recent purchases and are either fully or largely paid off.

If I am not mistaken those assets, should you liquefy them, would amount to the upper six figures at the lowest, and several million at best, depending upon property values where they are.

You are rich, my friend, and your assets are great.

You have far more than you really need. Nobody "needs" two homes, for goodness sake.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 249 by ICANT, posted 04-25-2007 12:36 AM ICANT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 258 by ICANT, posted 04-25-2007 7:25 AM nator has not yet responded

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2018 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2019