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Author Topic:   Evolution or Creation
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6259
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 286 of 301 (397620)
04-26-2007 10:05 PM
Reply to: Message 279 by nator
04-25-2007 7:21 PM


Re: Everything Is A Choice
Er, no. The King James bible is known to be one of the least accurate, though also one of the most beautiful, versions of the bible. The NRSV is better.

Sorry I don't believe that Jesus was a son of God.

I believe He was The only begotten Son of God.

I also believe God has many sons and daughters, who are born of the Spirit.

Those are just a couple of things I have a problem with in the NRSV.


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 279 by nator, posted 04-25-2007 7:21 PM nator has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 289 by nator, posted 04-26-2007 11:42 PM ICANT has not yet responded

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6259
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 287 of 301 (397622)
04-26-2007 10:17 PM
Reply to: Message 285 by nator
04-26-2007 9:48 PM


Re: Everything Is A Choice
Every science book teaches you about God's Creation.

Science book's teaches that I evolved from a single cell life form that no one knows where it came from, or how it came into existence. This teaches I have a body and mind.

God's book says that God created man in his own image. That would be flesh, Spirit and Mind (intelligence)

It teaches me that if man's Spirit is born again he will spend eternity with Him.

That makes the two versions incompatable.


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 285 by nator, posted 04-26-2007 9:48 PM nator has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 290 by nator, posted 04-26-2007 11:45 PM ICANT has not yet responded
 Message 292 by Zhimbo, posted 04-27-2007 12:14 AM ICANT has not yet responded

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6259
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 288 of 301 (397624)
04-26-2007 10:47 PM
Reply to: Message 285 by nator
04-26-2007 9:48 PM


Re: Everything Is A Choice
Why are you so afraid of knowledge, ICANT?

What makes you think I am afraid of knowledge?

Is that just because I will not accept everything that your God of Science teaches?

Your God of Science cannot tell you where the universe came from, how or why.

Your God of Science cannot tell you where life came from, how or why.

Your God of Science cannot tell you when the beginning was. 14 billion or 20 billion YA or inbetween. Next year what will it be?
Or the year after or etc.

Yet you want me to believe your God of Science is infallable.

My God of Heaven says He created the heavens and the earth in the beginning. That He created man in His image. That he created every living thing on earth. That He created man to Love and obey Him by choice.


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 285 by nator, posted 04-26-2007 9:48 PM nator has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 291 by nator, posted 04-27-2007 12:09 AM ICANT has responded
 Message 294 by fallacycop, posted 04-27-2007 12:41 AM ICANT has not yet responded

  
nator
Member (Idle past 459 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 289 of 301 (397639)
04-26-2007 11:42 PM
Reply to: Message 286 by ICANT
04-26-2007 10:05 PM


Re: Everything Is A Choice
quote:
Sorry I don't believe that Jesus was a son of God.

I believe He was The only begotten Son of God.

I also believe God has many sons and daughters, who are born of the Spirit.

Those are just a couple of things I have a problem with in the NRSV.


Yeah, but the question was which Bible is the most accurate, wasn't it?

If you prefer to believe a less accurate bible because you simply prefer it, then you don't actually care about accuracy.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 286 by ICANT, posted 04-26-2007 10:05 PM ICANT has not yet responded

  
nator
Member (Idle past 459 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 290 of 301 (397642)
04-26-2007 11:45 PM
Reply to: Message 287 by ICANT
04-26-2007 10:17 PM


Re: Everything Is A Choice
quote:
Science book's teaches that I evolved from a single cell life form that no one knows where it came from, or how it came into existence. This teaches I have a body and mind.

God's book says that God created man in his own image. That would be flesh, Spirit and Mind (intelligence)

It teaches me that if man's Spirit is born again he will spend eternity with Him.

That makes the two versions incompatable.


Like I said:

But we already know that you would rather remain ignorant of the wonders of His Creation that you can see, touch, smell, hear, and taste, and instead prefer to revere the pre-scientific explanations of natural phenomena in an ancient tome.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 287 by ICANT, posted 04-26-2007 10:17 PM ICANT has not yet responded

  
nator
Member (Idle past 459 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 291 of 301 (397653)
04-27-2007 12:09 AM
Reply to: Message 288 by ICANT
04-26-2007 10:47 PM


Re: Everything Is A Choice
quote:
What makes you think I am afraid of knowledge?

Is that just because I will not accept everything that your God of Science teaches?


There is no "God of science" and nobody is asking you to accept it blindly.

However, you have not even once, since you've been here, extended yourself to even attempt to learn anything about biology or evolution. You recoil from it, in fact. Thus, my question about your fear of knowledge.

You have never asked questions and really been open to the answers. All your questions have been asked in a scoffing tone, with all the arrogant confidence of someone who has already decided they already know the answer. Such arrogance and ignorance are often observed together, I've noticed.

You have made outrageous unsupported accusations claiming Biologists are perpetrating widespread fraud and conspiracy, yet have not the personal integrity to retract them.

quote:
Your [God of] Science cannot tell you where the universe came from, how or why.

So what?

Just becasue we do not have perfect knowledge of everything doesn't mean we know nothing at all about anything.

We DO KNOW how life changed on Earth, just as we know that the sun is the center of the solar system, that germs cause disease, and that matter is made of atoms.

quote:
Yet you want me to believe your God of Science is infallable.

Hardly.

Science, being a humanmade method, is imperfect and will always be such.

However, unlike your fallible human interpretation of the Bible, science is set up to improve and correct itself.

Your dogma is unchanging and static. Science, by contrast, is constantly getting more and more accurate as we improve our methods and increase our knowledge.

But this is not a battle between science and religion, of course.

You can certainly believe that your God is the architect of Evolution, created the Universe and the first life, too. None of that affects Cosmology or Evolutionary Biology one bit.

But if you deny the reality of God's Creation, insisting that what is written in a 2000 year old pre-scientific book of philosophy must trump the actual rocks, stars, plants, and animals that He created...

Well, then, it seems to me that you are engaging in an extreme act of hubris by refusing to accept the reality of God's Creation.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 288 by ICANT, posted 04-26-2007 10:47 PM ICANT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 295 by ICANT, posted 04-27-2007 9:47 AM nator has responded

  
Zhimbo
Member (Idle past 4300 days)
Posts: 571
From: New Hampshire, USA
Joined: 07-28-2001


Message 292 of 301 (397656)
04-27-2007 12:14 AM
Reply to: Message 287 by ICANT
04-26-2007 10:17 PM


Re: Everything Is A Choice
quote:
Science book's teaches that I evolved from a single cell life form that no one knows where it came from, or how it came into existence. This teaches I have a body and mind.

God's book says that God created man in his own image. That would be flesh, Spirit and Mind (intelligence)

It teaches me that if man's Spirit is born again he will spend eternity with Him.

That makes the two versions incompatable.


Actually, doesn't that make them fully compatible and wonderfully complementary?

Science deals with body and mind, Religion deals spirit.

Surely you don't deny you have a body and mind? Science is great at telling us about those things.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 287 by ICANT, posted 04-26-2007 10:17 PM ICANT has not yet responded

anglagard
Member
Posts: 2200
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006


Message 293 of 301 (397659)
04-27-2007 12:30 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by ICANT
04-15-2007 11:32 PM


Losing Pascal's Wager
ICANT writes:

Now I know that most of you cannot relate to what I believe. You think it is a myth, some even call it a lie, some would say I am deluded. But if when I die that is all there is to it what have I lost?

According to my religion, you have lost everything.

By denying the reality which God has shown you, God's creation, you have chosen to permanently separate yourself from God.

By worshiping a book instead of God, you have violated a commandment within that very book.

By worshiping a book instead of God and possibly intentionally deceiving yourself and others in the process, you may have violated another commandment within that very book.

By not seeing the contradiction involved with the two above conditions, it is likely that you have willingly forfeited any chance to become a part of God after death according to my religion.

Good luck with your wager, if I am right, you're gonna need it.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by ICANT, posted 04-15-2007 11:32 PM ICANT has not yet responded

  
fallacycop
Member (Idle past 3809 days)
Posts: 692
From: Fortaleza-CE Brazil
Joined: 02-18-2006


Message 294 of 301 (397661)
04-27-2007 12:41 AM
Reply to: Message 288 by ICANT
04-26-2007 10:47 PM


Re: Everything Is A Choice
What makes you think I am afraid of knowledge?

Is that just because I will not accept everything that your God of Science teaches?

Your God of Science cannot tell you where the universe came from, how or why.

Your God of Science cannot tell you where life came from, how or why.

Your God of Science cannot tell you when the beginning was. 14 billion or 20 billion YA or inbetween. Next year what will it be?
Or the year after or etc.

Yet you want me to believe your God of Science is infallable.

Science gives us only partial information, it is true. But the information science gives us is taken directly from god`s creation -- the world itself. That`s the only incontestable source of information about god we have

My God of Heaven says He created the heavens and the earth in the beginning. That He created man in His image. That he created every living thing on earth. That He created man to Love and obey Him by choice.

Did your god of heaven say that to you? or did you read it in a book you would have us believe to be the word of god? Sorry but that simply isn`t credable. I thin k it is clear that if is better to have some well founded partial information then some baseless information.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 288 by ICANT, posted 04-26-2007 10:47 PM ICANT has not yet responded

ICANT
Member
Posts: 6259
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 295 of 301 (397689)
04-27-2007 9:47 AM
Reply to: Message 291 by nator
04-27-2007 12:09 AM


Re: Everything Is A Choice
But this is not a battle between science and religion, of course.

Science says one day it will prove to be true. We will figure it out maybe.

God says in His Word that one day every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.

If that day does not ever come then I will have been proven wrong.


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 291 by nator, posted 04-27-2007 12:09 AM nator has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 296 by nator, posted 04-27-2007 9:53 AM ICANT has not yet responded
 Message 297 by mark24, posted 04-27-2007 10:25 AM ICANT has responded
 Message 298 by nator, posted 04-27-2007 10:36 AM ICANT has responded

  
nator
Member (Idle past 459 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 296 of 301 (397691)
04-27-2007 9:53 AM
Reply to: Message 295 by ICANT
04-27-2007 9:47 AM


Re: Everything Is A Choice
quote:
If that day does not ever come then I will have been proven wrong.

In the mean time though, you will continue to deny the reality of God's Creation in favor of the explanations of natural phenomena found in a 2000 year old pre-scientific book of philosophy.

Like I said.

You fear knowledge.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 295 by ICANT, posted 04-27-2007 9:47 AM ICANT has not yet responded

  
mark24
Member (Idle past 3484 days)
Posts: 3857
From: UK
Joined: 12-01-2001


Message 297 of 301 (397702)
04-27-2007 10:25 AM
Reply to: Message 295 by ICANT
04-27-2007 9:47 AM


Re: Everything Is A Choice
ICAN'T,

So, is it true God can do anything but cannot lie?

Mark


There are 10 kinds of people in this world; those that understand binary, & those that don't

This message is a reply to:
 Message 295 by ICANT, posted 04-27-2007 9:47 AM ICANT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 299 by ICANT, posted 04-27-2007 10:13 PM mark24 has not yet responded

  
nator
Member (Idle past 459 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 298 of 301 (397705)
04-27-2007 10:36 AM
Reply to: Message 295 by ICANT
04-27-2007 9:47 AM


Remember Francis Collins?
Remember when you quoted Francis Collins in support of an argument?

Here's what he has to say about your beliefs:

My heart goes out to sincere believers who feel threatened by evolution and who feel that they have to maintain their position against it in order to prove their allegiance to God. But if God used this process and gave us the chance to discover it, then it seems anachronistic, to say the least, that we would feel we have to defend him against our own scientific conclusions. God is the author of all truth. You can find him in the laboratory as well as in the cathedral. He's the God of the Bible; he's the God of the genome. He did it all.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 295 by ICANT, posted 04-27-2007 9:47 AM ICANT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 300 by ICANT, posted 04-27-2007 10:13 PM nator has not yet responded

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6259
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 299 of 301 (397836)
04-27-2007 10:13 PM
Reply to: Message 297 by mark24
04-27-2007 10:25 AM


Re: Everything Is A Choice
So, is it true God can do anything but cannot lie?

I say God will not lie, but He is capable of doing anything.

Mark,
I am capable of blowing someone's brains out with my 44 magnum but I will not.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 297 by mark24, posted 04-27-2007 10:25 AM mark24 has not yet responded

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6259
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 300 of 301 (397837)
04-27-2007 10:13 PM
Reply to: Message 298 by nator
04-27-2007 10:36 AM


Re: Remember Francis Collins?
Here's what he has to say about your beliefs:

nator,

I could care less about what Francis Collins has to say about my beliefs. I could care less about what anybody has to say about what I believe.

I have already been judged as to where I will spend eternity as Jesus said: "I give unto them eternal life and they shall never perish"

{quoteJohn 3:18 (KJS) He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.[/quote]
I already have a home in Heaven.
But I must be judged as to how I have used the talents that God gave me, and be rewarded accordingly.
I will not be judged by what someone thinks.
I will be judged out of the books of God.
The only thing that matters is what God thinks and says.
The only thing that matters is to hear Jesus say, "well done my good and faithful servant enter into the joys of thy Lord".


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 298 by nator, posted 04-27-2007 10:36 AM nator has not yet responded

  
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