Evolution or Creation

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No nator you said that.

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I said God will cast everyone who does not trust in Him into the lake of fire where they will suffer forever.

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No, you said something very different.You said:(bolding added by me for emphasis)

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I would rather have these things and be ignorant and unlearned and go into Heaven and spend eternity there.

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Than: To be the most knowledgeable person cast into the lake of fire to suffer forever.

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You very clearly said that you would rather choose to be ignorant because you would be rewarded by your god with heaven for remaining so.You mentioned nothing at all about "trusting" in god. You were talking about knowledge and how having "too much" could bring god's wrath down upon us.

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I have nothing against education I did go to college.

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Well, you do have a big problem with all of the life sciences, seeing as you reject them all without knowing much about them.

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And I have stated that I am here still trying to learn.

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To be honest, ICANT, I don't see that you are really trying to learn here.I see instead that you are mostly trying very hard to protect and maintain your faith-based ignorance.Again, I'd really like you to answer the very simple question I posed to you in this post. I promise you that the resulting discussion, regardless of the answer you give, will go a long way toward helping you to learn. Edited by nator, : No reason given.Edited by nator, : No reason given.

No, atheists and others are committed to their beliefs, which just happen to differ from yours. You are an atheist, too, by most religious standards that have obtained throughout history.And now you know where this 'commitment' comes from. You know belief is not willed, but is an honest and involuntary response to experience.Right?_

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ArcherAll species are transitional.

That, of couse, is the right question to make. I asked something in that vein earlier in this thread, but got no straight answer. I wouldn't be surprised if you don't get one either. It seems that ICANT stands for I can't deal with hard questions.

One problem with that:"I BELIEVED BEFORE I HAD THE EXPERIENCE WITH GOD"

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Insults aside, that question is not really related to answering the OP, is it?However, Archer's interaction with ICANT, clarifying the belief choice or nonchoice, helps define that question more clearly.To further understand the OP question, I think we should explore ICANT's reasons for placing such a limited choice in front of himself.For ICANT: What are your reasons for stating that concluding the Theory of Evolution is true requires you to be an athiest?

So your "experience with God" was confirmation bias?

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On what basis?(No need to shout.)

Hi nator love the new horse. Message 58

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I would rather have these things and be ignorant and unlearned and go into Heaven and spend eternity there.

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Than: To be the most knowledgeable person cast into the lake of fire to suffer forever.
  —I said

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There you go again putting words into my mouth. Nowhere does it say God would reward me with heaven.It just means that if education would keep me out of heaven I would rather be ignorant.This is what I said in the op.

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That God made me so I could choose to love and serve Him just because He is God.
That man has a sin nature he inherited from Adam.
God provided a sacrifice to pay my sin debt.
Jesus the only begotten Son of God was crucified that I might be saved.
That to go to heaven I must trust in That Sacrifice.
That if I do nothing I will spend eternity in the lake of fire.
That Christ was buried and arose 3 days later.
That 40 days later he ascended into Heaven to make intercession for me.
That Jesus is coming again.
That I will be judged according to how I have done on earth and will be rewarded accordingly.
That all who have not trusted Christ will stand at the Great White Throne judgment and confess Jesus is Lord.
That all whose names are not written in the Lambs Book of Life will be cast into the Lake of Fire.
That there will be a new Heaven and Earth.
That there will be no more day or night as God will be the light.
That there will be a City, The New Jerusalem that has streets of Gold, where I will live with God for eternity.

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Just because I said I would rather choose to be ignorant does not mean than I am.Lets see:
My earthly father and I cut down a lot of pine trees in 1949. I helped them evolve into a beautiful 3 bedroom house that my sister lives in today.
I took over the farm in 1952 and in 5 years through pollination and selective breeding I managed to increase the output to 5 times the original.
I am responsible for building over 1200 miles of roads in the state of Florida of which 92 miles is interstate I10, I75, and I95.
I am responsible for building multistory buildings as a rest home.
I am responsible for drawing blueprints and building many houses in the US and other countries.
I can do anything in the construction of a house from drawing the blueprint to the finish paint and decorating. That includes clearing the lot, digging footer, pouring the concrete, laying the block, finishing the floor, plumbing, electrical, framing, drywall, painting, tile, building the cabinets, and the landscaping.Yes I do have a big problem with some aspects of the sciences simply because they are conjecture and mans beliefs. All the stuff espoused here is not science.I have no problem with science. When science can prove to me where the first life form came from, how and why, along with where the infinitely small nothing came from that the universe came from then I will begin to look at other things that you hold dear.As far as a definition of Kind you have already told me that I am not qualified to give such a definition so it does not matter what I say you have already made up your mind that it is wrong.But I will tell you what I believe God was talking about in Genesis.
God made mankind, God made animal kind, God made bird kind, God made fish kind, God made vegetable kind, and these kinds have never crossed from one to the other. See I told you, you would not believe me.All of my talents I mentioned above I believe was given to me by God. Everything that I have accomplished I give Him credit for because if it had not been for God I would have probably followed in my mothers footsteps, and drank my life away, I am a sober alcoholic and have been sober since 1962. But I loved the taste of whiskey.My question remains would I have benefited more by not believing in God.Most of what I see on this site is telling Christianity that they have a faith based ignorance. That we are deluded. That we won't answer questions. I have told you what I believe about creation and you can not prove that I am wrong. Until you can prove to me where life came from, how, and why, and where the infinitely small nothing came from that the universe came from.So I have asked the question what does Atheism offer? Enlighten Us.Evolution is a given fact that things evolve over time within their kind. It is not a proven fact that man evolved from a single cell life form. There are a few skulls and a lot of teeth that man has put his imagination too and built a lot of things out of them.The Bible says that God made man from the dust of the earth and all creatures, including fowls. Therefore I would say that everything is quite similar.

Hrm, what? You mean you've never seen the tobacco plant with the jellyfish genes? Glows in the dark, it does.

I thought you might hear it that way.The basis for what I believed was what I read in the Bible.Where did you get the ideas for the things you believe?

You misunderstand. Ignorance isn't faith-based - but misplaced faith preserves ignorance.

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If I believe that man evolved from a single cell life form that no one knows where, how or why it exists in a Universe that came from an infinitely small nothing, I have to discard the Bible completely therefore there is no God that created the heavens and the earth and everything in it. If I believe in no God that would make me an atheist.But this does not mean than I do not believe in some aspects of evolution that things change over time.It does not mean that I do not believe in science, because true science has made great strides in the past decades and I hope will continue to do so as long as God allows this world to exist.

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Since everything was created from the same elements why would this not be possible.But no I have never seen the tobacco plant that glows in the dark. That would have made it possible to harvest at night.

Only if you take it literally. But why don't you consider the possibility that God is a poet who tells you a nice parable to get his point across?

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"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science." - Charles Darwin.

I just find it inconsistent with creationism, is all. I mean, here are creationists telling me that:1) Organisms were created in myriad seperate "kinds", where no cross-over is possible, and that these kinds are way too different to have possibly evolved from each other;
2) Genetic sequences are so fine-tuned and precise that the slightest change can mess the whole thing up and lead to disaster.Yet, here are the world's genetic engineers, dropping genes from jellyfish into tobacco plants like it's the easiest thing in the world. I've worked extensively with corn that was genetically spliced with genes from a bacterium. We're dropping human oncogenes into mice, so that they'll grow tumors we can test drugs on.It turns out that it's practically the easiest thing in the world to fold in genes from other organisms, and that it doesn't really matter where the gene was from. Jellyfish into plants. Humans into mice. There's almost no limit.How does that jive with the things creationists say? The ease with which this stuff as done means the creationist contentions I listed above are completely false. It's clear that there's a lot of room to play around with genetic codes; way more room than you would need to evolve men from mammals, for instance.