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Author Topic:   Pascal's Wager - Any Way to Live a Life
kuresu
Member (Idle past 2513 days)
Posts: 2544
From: boulder, colorado
Joined: 03-24-2006


Message 75 of 126 (438455)
12-04-2007 6:47 PM
Reply to: Message 67 by rstrats
11-29-2007 2:22 PM


Mind giving the evidence showing that choosing to believe is impossible?
The corollary to your statement is that people cannot choose to not believe. Trouble is, we see creos everday choosing not to believe and choosing to not accept reality.
If the corollary is wrong, why should the main argument be right?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 67 by rstrats, posted 11-29-2007 2:22 PM rstrats has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 77 by rstrats, posted 12-04-2007 7:11 PM kuresu has replied

  
kuresu
Member (Idle past 2513 days)
Posts: 2544
From: boulder, colorado
Joined: 03-24-2006


Message 79 of 126 (438465)
12-04-2007 7:56 PM
Reply to: Message 77 by rstrats
12-04-2007 7:11 PM


ah, so your evidence rests on your own personal disbelief that belief can be changed. yours, then, is a fallacious argument.
Further, you require the belief to change instantly. Why must belief change instantly in order for belief to be willed? Can it not be a gradual process?
What about theists who become atheists, or atheists who become theists?
What about creos who will believe in any cockamanie idea so long as it supports (in their minds) their god(s)?
How about showing some psychiatric studies showing that one cannot choose to believe in something? That is what I meant by evidence.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 77 by rstrats, posted 12-04-2007 7:11 PM rstrats has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 82 by rstrats, posted 12-04-2007 8:21 PM kuresu has replied

  
kuresu
Member (Idle past 2513 days)
Posts: 2544
From: boulder, colorado
Joined: 03-24-2006


Message 83 of 126 (438481)
12-04-2007 8:33 PM
Reply to: Message 82 by rstrats
12-04-2007 8:21 PM


Even your asking of other people doesn't count as evidence. Why? Because it is anecdotal. Anecdotal testimony makes for poor evidence, which is largely why the sciences do not rest upon it nor the courts, should they have physical evidence (such as incontrivertible DNA). {ABE}Further, people may not think they can actively choose to believe, when in fact that might be possible. This is partly why personal testimony is unreliable.{/ABE}
Beliefs do not have to change instantly. You are right in the sense that there is that one moment where you go from "I don't believe" to "I believe" (or vice versa), but that process can be a long path, including "I might (not) believe". That you fail to see this is no surprise, given your response to jar.
If you don't understand my point, it's maybe because you don't understand your own argument. You argue that is it impossible to choose to believe (or not, the corollary I outlined). The groups I mentioned are people who have chosen to believe or not. Better yet, it's not exactly anecdotal evidence, because these people exist and we can track their change (or refusal). {ABE}Also, because we don't have to rely on what the people say about themselves, but rather, we can rely on positions they state and we can see the change and we can see the evidence of their choosing to change (such as C.S. Lewis choosing to become a christian, when he was an atheist), they become actual evidence.{/ABE}
Having been here for 3 years, I would imagine you know what a "creo" is.
You also do not understand what a scientific study is, if you think that your request on my belief about leprechauns and my response (should I give one) constitutes a psychiatric study. {ABE}My response would be an anecdotal response.{/ABE}
Edited by kuresu, : No reason given.

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kuresu
Member (Idle past 2513 days)
Posts: 2544
From: boulder, colorado
Joined: 03-24-2006


Message 88 of 126 (438685)
12-05-2007 6:50 PM
Reply to: Message 87 by rstrats
12-05-2007 6:25 PM


or, you know, you could try learning what we have said or try learning how to articulate your ideas better.
If your idea is so right, why should you give up on it?
If our idea is so wrong, why should you accept defeat?
I call your cop-out.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 87 by rstrats, posted 12-05-2007 6:25 PM rstrats has not replied

  
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