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Author Topic:   Pascal's Wager - Any Way to Live a Life
Hawkins
Member (Idle past 649 days)
Posts: 150
From: Hong Kong
Joined: 08-25-2005


Message 91 of 126 (442094)
12-20-2007 4:42 AM


I am quite sure the someone (I don't know who he/she is thou) will have to choose between Islam and Christianity.

To make Pascal's wager even more interesting, here's the questions;

If God does exist and you do have an afterlife, and as a non-believer, where do you want God to put you to?

1) Heaven
2) Hell
3) A place full of freedom but God virtually dosn't exist
4) ? any other choices?

Since you didn't choose God, is it reasonable that you'll be put to 3) a place free and void of God?

If so, let me tell you this, wherever void of God will be turned to Hell by its inhabitants, that is, YOU.

That's Pascal's wager.

Edited by Hawkins, : No reason given.

Edited by Hawkins, : No reason given.


  
The Agnostic
Member (Idle past 4007 days)
Posts: 36
From: Netherlands
Joined: 12-17-2007


Message 92 of 126 (442217)
12-20-2007 3:53 PM


I think Pascal's Wager fails for three reasons:

1) Humans cannot choose what they believe.

2) An omniscient God would know you're only betting for your own good; rather than truely believing.

3) The fact that betting on God is smart, doesn't say anything about the question if He exists, or not.


Replies to this message:
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 Message 94 by iceage, posted 01-16-2008 3:33 PM The Agnostic has not yet responded
 Message 96 by rstrats, posted 02-16-2008 3:11 PM The Agnostic has not yet responded
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rstrats
Member
Posts: 122
Joined: 04-08-2004


Message 93 of 126 (449076)
01-16-2008 1:18 PM
Reply to: Message 92 by The Agnostic
12-20-2007 3:53 PM


The Agnostic,

re: “I think Pascal's Wager fails for three reasons:1) Humans cannot choose what they believe...”

It’s been 27 days since you posted that comment and no one has disagreed with you. Apparently they have come to see that that is the truth of the issue.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 92 by The Agnostic, posted 12-20-2007 3:53 PM The Agnostic has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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iceage 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3989 days)
Posts: 1024
From: Pacific Northwest
Joined: 09-08-2003


Message 94 of 126 (449084)
01-16-2008 3:33 PM
Reply to: Message 92 by The Agnostic
12-20-2007 3:53 PM


God Plays Poker?
Actually i think pascal's wager fails because it is inconceivable that the creator of the material universe would play a game requiring what is in essence a blind bet - for what reason would God hide behind obscure, incomplete and questionable evidence?

Here is paraphrase of something I heard a while back (not sure of the source) that puts a bit humor into the bizarre notion...

"God doesn't play dice.... no no.... he plays poker, in a dark room with blank cards, and he doesn't explain the rules"

Edited by iceage, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 92 by The Agnostic, posted 12-20-2007 3:53 PM The Agnostic has not yet responded

  
RAZD
Member
Posts: 19754
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 6.2


Message 95 of 126 (449086)
01-16-2008 3:46 PM
Reply to: Message 93 by rstrats
01-16-2008 1:18 PM


Welcome to the fray, rstrats

The Agnostic,

re: “I think Pascal's Wager fails for three reasons:1) Humans cannot choose what they believe...”

type [qs]quotes are easy[/qs] and it becomes:

quotes are easy

or type [quote]quotes are easy[/quote] and it becomes:

quote:
quotes are easy

You can also type [qs=TheAgnostic]quotes are easy[/qs] and it becomes:

TheAgnostic writes:

quotes are easy

Just some tips to turn you into an old-timer ... :D

It’s been 27 days since you posted that comment and no one has disagreed with you. Apparently they have come to see that that is the truth of the issue.

Another reason it fails is that to fully implement it you would need to believe every single religion that ever existed, which could get rather interesting with the sacrifices ...

Enjoy.


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This message is a reply to:
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rstrats
Member
Posts: 122
Joined: 04-08-2004


Message 96 of 126 (456248)
02-16-2008 3:11 PM
Reply to: Message 92 by The Agnostic
12-20-2007 3:53 PM


The Agnostic,

re: “I think Pascal's Wager fails for three reasons: 1) Humans cannot choose what they believe...”

It’s now been 58 days since you posted that comment and still no one has disagreed with you. Apparently everyone continues to see that that is the truth of the issue.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 92 by The Agnostic, posted 12-20-2007 3:53 PM The Agnostic has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 3795
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 97 of 126 (456257)
02-16-2008 4:19 PM
Reply to: Message 96 by rstrats
02-16-2008 3:11 PM


I think Pascal's Wager fails for three reasons: 1) Humans cannot choose what they believe...

This is true…

It’s now been 58 days since you posted that comment and still no one has disagreed with you. Apparently everyone continues to see that that is the truth of the issue.

but be careful to understand the nature of “belief.”

Despite the insistence of some, we are not born nor pre-destined to be Christian, Moslem, Hindu or atheist.

Belief begins as acculturation from family and community. Then life experience, training, personality, intellectual ability and information will affirm, challenge, change or discard those beliefs.

You do have some control, through study and experience, over whether the beliefs you were raised in are still appropriate for you or if there is some alternate belief (or lack thereof) with which you find more comfort.


This message is a reply to:
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rstrats
Member
Posts: 122
Joined: 04-08-2004


Message 98 of 126 (472455)
06-22-2008 2:23 PM
Reply to: Message 92 by The Agnostic
12-20-2007 3:53 PM


The Agnostic,

re: “I think Pascal's Wager fails for three reasons: 1) Humans cannot choose what they believe...”

It’s now been 185 days since you posted that comment and still no one has disagreed with you. Apparently everyone continues to see that that is the truth of the issue.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 92 by The Agnostic, posted 12-20-2007 3:53 PM The Agnostic has not yet responded

  
rstrats
Member
Posts: 122
Joined: 04-08-2004


Message 99 of 126 (472457)
06-22-2008 2:27 PM
Reply to: Message 92 by The Agnostic
12-20-2007 3:53 PM


Duplicate post.

Edited by rstrats, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 92 by The Agnostic, posted 12-20-2007 3:53 PM The Agnostic has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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rstrats
Member
Posts: 122
Joined: 04-08-2004


Message 100 of 126 (477867)
08-08-2008 1:35 PM
Reply to: Message 99 by rstrats
06-22-2008 2:27 PM


The Agnostic,

re: “I think Pascal's Wager fails for three reasons: 1) Humans cannot choose what they believe...”

It’s now been 232 days since you posted that comment and still no one has disagreed with you. Apparently everyone continues to see that that is the truth of the issue.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 99 by rstrats, posted 06-22-2008 2:27 PM rstrats has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 101 by Phat, posted 08-08-2008 3:42 PM rstrats has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 12159
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 101 of 126 (477876)
08-08-2008 3:42 PM
Reply to: Message 100 by rstrats
08-08-2008 1:35 PM


We can choose
Actually, I think humans can and do choose what they believe...to some extent. We always prefer to believe things that we understand and have some manner of control over...which is why God is an unpopular option.
This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Rahvin
Member (Idle past 1261 days)
Posts: 3964
Joined: 07-01-2005


Message 102 of 126 (477884)
08-08-2008 6:44 PM
Reply to: Message 101 by Phat
08-08-2008 3:42 PM


Re: We can choose
Actually, I think humans can and do choose what they believe...to some extent. We always prefer to believe things that we understand and have some manner of control over...which is why God is an unpopular option.

He is?

I thought the vast majority of people believed in one deity or another. Am I mistaken, Phat, or was that comment of yours complete bullshit?

I agree that people life to believe in what they think they understand or have some control over - which is exactly why so many believe in God. "Goddidit," while completely lacking in any real explanatory function, is incredibly easy for the intellectually lazy. Relying on teh Bible for any and all significant answers is also easier, even though it's less effective than actually thinking through a problem yourself.

And of course people feel like their faith in God gives them control - for all the Christian bluster about how "Jesus has the wheel" and such, Christians honestly believe they can affect reality through prayer. In fact, prayer is almost invariably the last resort of the individual who intellectually realizes that he has no control over the situation and is reaching out to anything in an attempt to influence the outcome.

But saying "God is an unpopular option" is utterly ridiculous when the vast majority of the world's population believes in God. In fact, that statement would reflect the polar opposite of reality.


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anglagard
Member
Posts: 2185
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006


Message 103 of 126 (477888)
08-08-2008 7:06 PM
Reply to: Message 102 by Rahvin
08-08-2008 6:44 PM


Re: We can choose
Rahvin writes:

But saying "God is an unpopular option" is utterly ridiculous when the vast majority of the world's population believes in God. In fact, that statement would reflect the polar opposite of reality.

Perhaps Phat was actually referring to his personal concept of God, which pretty much sums up what anyone has and is a definite minority opinion. Indeed it is conceptually an army of one.

However, I'm sure that like Mrs. Slocum, Phat is "unanimous in that opinion." :)


Read not to contradict and confute, not to believe and take for granted, not to find talk and discourse, but to weigh and consider - Francis Bacon

The more we understand particular things, the more we understand God - Spinoza


This message is a reply to:
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jaywill
Member (Idle past 15 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 104 of 126 (478997)
08-22-2008 11:08 PM


I don't think Christians use Pascal's Wager for their own benefit. I think they use it for the benefit of those who claim to have all kinds of logical reasons why they should not accept God in Christ.

C.S. Lewis was a athiest before he became a disciple of Jesus. Very thoughtful people like Lewis come up with things like Pascal's Wager to challenge those who have supposedly many reasoned arguments why they should not accept God in Christ as Lord and Savior.

I am a Christian and I guess the closest I have come to something like Pascal's Wager is to assure people that I will have no regrets whatsoever if I find out that I was duped about Jesus.

I honestly believe that believing in Christ was the best possible life I could have lived. If I had 100 lives to live, I can't see me wasting one on a Christless existence.

Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.


Replies to this message:
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Rrhain
Member
Posts: 6349
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003


Message 105 of 126 (479048)
08-23-2008 9:39 PM
Reply to: Message 104 by jaywill
08-22-2008 11:08 PM


jaywill writes:

quote:
I am a Christian and I guess the closest I have come to something like Pascal's Wager is to assure people that I will have no regrets whatsoever if I find out that I was duped about Jesus.

Then why won't you extend that courtesy to atheists? You do realize that Pascal's Wager threatens eternal damnation and hellfire, yes?

quote:
I honestly believe that believing in Christ was the best possible life I could have lived. If I had 100 lives to live, I can't see me wasting one on a Christless existence.

Why can't you extend that concept to others? If you can handle it with regard to your life, what makes you think others don't feel the same way about their lives?

That's one of the many fallacies of the wager.


Rrhain

Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.
This message is a reply to:
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