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Author Topic:   What is The Atonement?
ramoss
Member (Idle past 630 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 4 of 202 (251604)
10-13-2005 9:52 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by robinrohan
10-13-2005 8:54 PM


Well, Atonement is a bit different in the Jewish religion. Since it will soon be Yom Kipper, it is approriate to consider what attonement means to the Jewish faith.
The Day of Atonement is set aside to ask forgivenes of god for 'sins' against god. For sins against another person, you have to go to the other person for forgiveness. To atone for that, you have to make right the wrongs you did against the other person.
In biblical times, the sacrifice of an animal was reserved for 'uninteninal sin'. There were also sacrifices of cereal, or , repentance and prayer, and the animal sacrifices were the least important of the methods of atonement.
For the blood sacricices, only specific animals were allowed, such as bulls, goats, and doves. I am sure anybody reading it will notice the distinct lack of humans on that list. There also were warning thought the Tanakh when people became too obcessed with blood sacrifice (example psalm 40:7 "Sacrifice and meal offering You have not desired; but my ears You have opened; burnt offering and sin offering You have not required."
In essense, part of asking for forgivenes is repentance. What are the steps for repentance? They are as follows
* realizing the error of sinning and regretting it;
* quietly confessing it to God;
* accepting upon yourself to try not to do it again;
* trying not to do it again.
Therefore, part of atonement is repentance, and that means an attempt to learn from your past mistakes, and not to do it again.
One point that should be made is that the Jewish religion is for this life, and does not dwell unduely on the next one. Atonement is for this life, not the next one.
From the jewish perspective , the concept of a sacrifice of a human being to forgive someone else of their sins does not make sense. The entire concept of 'salvation' for the afterlife is absent. There also is no concept of original sin. It makes an interesting contrast with the various atonement and salvation concepts in Christianity.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by robinrohan, posted 10-13-2005 8:54 PM robinrohan has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 66 by purpledawn, posted 10-17-2005 8:57 AM ramoss has replied

  
ramoss
Member (Idle past 630 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 6 of 202 (251615)
10-13-2005 10:35 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by jar
10-13-2005 10:20 PM


It seems to me there are two basic forms of christianity.
One is concerned about the message that is attributed to Jesus.
One is concerned about the stories about Jesus.

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 Message 5 by jar, posted 10-13-2005 10:20 PM jar has not replied

  
ramoss
Member (Idle past 630 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 136 of 202 (252745)
10-18-2005 1:10 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by iano
10-14-2005 2:35 PM


Re: Ransom to the Devil
So, god paid himself a ransom so that he wouldn't destroy the people he is created yet again?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by iano, posted 10-14-2005 2:35 PM iano has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 139 by iano, posted 10-18-2005 1:13 PM ramoss has not replied

  
ramoss
Member (Idle past 630 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 143 of 202 (252775)
10-18-2005 2:05 PM
Reply to: Message 66 by purpledawn
10-17-2005 8:57 AM


Re: Sin Against God
Mainly anything of the rules that are described in Levatiucs.. there so so many, SOMEONE is bound to break them sometime.
There also seems to be a different sense about what 'sin' is between
the Jewish religion and the christian religion.
Sin , literally , means 'to miss the mark'. It means that someone made the wrong choice, or did not do the best they could. In the Christian
religion, there seems to be an all powerful' SIN' that corrupts everyone.
The concept of sin being 'corrupt' and dirty is absent from the Jewish concept. The idea that man is this inherently evil being (orginal sin), does not exist at all. Man is viewed at inherently good, not inherently evil. There is the 'urge to do good' balanced by the 'urge to do evil'.

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 Message 66 by purpledawn, posted 10-17-2005 8:57 AM purpledawn has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 148 by purpledawn, posted 10-18-2005 2:24 PM ramoss has not replied
 Message 165 by arachnophilia, posted 10-19-2005 12:37 AM ramoss has not replied
 Message 192 by Buzsaw, posted 10-19-2005 11:06 PM ramoss has not replied

  
ramoss
Member (Idle past 630 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 145 of 202 (252777)
10-18-2005 2:09 PM
Reply to: Message 77 by nwr
10-17-2005 1:24 PM


Re: if we have free will, surely god must too
But, in essence, don't we all?

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ramoss
Member (Idle past 630 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 147 of 202 (252780)
10-18-2005 2:14 PM
Reply to: Message 84 by arachnophilia
10-17-2005 4:15 PM


Re: Law To Be Kept Perfectly
Indeed, much of the Tanakah is stories about kings, and other leaders BREAKING the laws, and not being perfect. ONe interpretation of it is that even the greats can not be perfect , yet still find favor with God.
The point is if they can find favor with god, with all their faults, so can the common man.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 84 by arachnophilia, posted 10-17-2005 4:15 PM arachnophilia has replied

Replies to this message:
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