What is The Atonement?

Some things here I cannot reconcile... Hate is not the act of a being that 'is' Love His 'hate' must surely be darkness? Surely we can't apply our earthly view of juctice to God?? you are very selective when you do this. it takes from your credibility. But yet we are all still condemned, as sinners, to go to hell. It seems this 'sacrifice' was totally in vain. Who, if anyone, was spared the ravages of hell by jesus' sacrifice? Does it say this explicitly or is this just your reading of it?This message has been edited by AdminJar, 10-14-2005 12:32 PM

So... I'm still not clear, What exactly was the benefit of jesus dieing on the cross? Who chose to to have their sins transferred to jesus? I thought we were all sinners? I thought we were all doomed to hell?
You say Death couldn't hold jesus...(I presume you mean physical death as in the fact that he rose from the dead, right?) but in the next sentance Death means separation from god? hmmm...
no sin = no death, so we all still die right?this "sacrifice" of jesus' was little more than a publicity stunt it seems.

So we are free from God's law as a result of the crucifixion? really? is that what christianity teaches?

You seem well able to imagine this anguish, and you seem confident enough to preach what God's view is, where do you get this belief that you are somehow authorised to speak on behalf of god. You constantly patronise with "you wouldn't/couldn't Understand" type statements when the truth is you don't understand yourself, but you are not content with not understanding so you choose to believe, this raises you (in your own mind) to a position of power, a delusion that you understand the meaning of life. a delusion that you are going to "heaven", a delusion that you are somehow better than everyone else. Every time you clarify a point all you are doing is presenting your reading, your interpretation. For each one of you there are a thousand others who have a different take on things.What convinces you that you have got it right? I want this cleared up... You say you are guaranteed a place in heaven because you believe... you can break god's law without fear of condemnation. You can, in effect, rampage around the place breaking God's laws (kill...covet....etc..)and still go to heaven? Are we in the presence of a god? Do you really see yourself in such an exhalted position? above the rest of humanity? Oh but Iano... How can a mere mortal lkike you hope to understand the workings of god? *waves hand* But in a different thread.. (Random god rant) you defended the position that a child, born disabled, is suffering punishment for it's fathers sins. How do you reconcile this? How do you reconcile this with the fact that we are doomed to hell for Eve's slip up in the Garden? from the moment of birth, before even taking our first breath... how have we sinned at such an early stage? what sin is "My own"?

so the child is being put to death (separate from god) for the sins of his father(adam)... or have you chosen a different definition of death to suit your argument? it seems so.
You are doing exactly what you accused Jar of doing.

You have not cleared up this contradiction.

being born spiritually dead or being put to spiritual death, either way the infant will be spiritualy dead as a result of the sins of it's father.

but that's exactly what you claim... we are all born sinners.. doomed to hell...separate from god.
You have claimed that that a child born with an illness or deformitty is suffering for the sins of it's father (see Random God rant)This message has been edited by Creavolution, 10-18-2005 03:20 PM

So as a consequence of adams action, the child is not only spiritually dead, but is now (for instance) terminally ill/deformed.how on earth can you reconcile this with... clearly in this situation the child is being punished (spirituallly dead, sentanced to physical death, sentenced to a life of hardship and ridicule because of something Adam did 4,000 years ago?You are welcome to your god.