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Author Topic:   Why This Belief?
mikehager
Member (Idle past 6492 days)
Posts: 534
Joined: 09-02-2004


Message 5 of 111 (212890)
05-31-2005 5:28 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by Phat
05-31-2005 4:25 PM


Re: Relative truth or absolute truth?
If Jesus was and is God incarnate, He truly is the only way!
What if he wasn't? What if he were a successful religious con man who managed to bilk a lot of people and did it so well that people continue to be bilked 2000 years later? We can't know. There is no evidence for Christ's divinity or his being a con man.
Why do you choose to believe in him?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by Phat, posted 05-31-2005 4:25 PM Phat has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-01-2005 12:29 AM mikehager has replied

  
mikehager
Member (Idle past 6492 days)
Posts: 534
Joined: 09-02-2004


Message 8 of 111 (213058)
06-01-2005 12:15 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by New Cat's Eye
06-01-2005 12:29 AM


Re: Relative truth or absolute truth?
Sort of working back to front...
Its too bad, for you, that this evidence cannot be substantiated, but then, that would make it all too easy and rid life of "the most potent element of human existance" ... faith.
That faith is the most potent element of human existence is your unporvable opinion.
(in reference to the divinity of Christ)keep in mind that you have no evidence but there could be evidence for other.
Then it isn't evidence. Evidence works for everyone if it really is evidence. There is no such thing as evidence for you but not for me. In any case, I am not here to debate for the umpteenth time whether there is evidence for the divinity of Christ. There isn't, which is why I don't believe in it.
The question is why, given this lack of evidence, does anyone choose to believe in such divinity. So far, Phat and CS have basically said "Because I do". That's nice. Why? We have this from CS:
I believe that Jesus spoke so much truth (about the way you should live your life, etc.) that I can believe everything that he said, including being the son of god.
Are we really to beieve that it is outside the realm of possibility for Christ to have lied or been deluded about one thing only... his divinity? That is, of course, assuming that his teachings are actually applicable in modern times or that they ever were. Believe it if you will, CS. That is your right, but it isn't a very compelling reason.
And finally...
I don't think Jesus was a con man because he didn't gain anything from the con, and he allowed himself to be crucified seemingly defeating the purpose of a con.
Maybe he was just really good at the street preaching end of things but bad at the payoff and getaway parts.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-01-2005 12:29 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by jar, posted 06-01-2005 12:27 PM mikehager has replied
 Message 16 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-01-2005 4:30 PM mikehager has replied

  
mikehager
Member (Idle past 6492 days)
Posts: 534
Joined: 09-02-2004


Message 10 of 111 (213080)
06-01-2005 12:49 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by GDR
06-01-2005 3:12 AM


I agree, mostly.
You are correct that choosing theism is not a logical or scientific choice. However, you are making a few incorrect assumptions in your detailed decision making process.
It does appear to me that it is highly unlikely that my eyeball, a rose, my love for my family, and even my ability to reason just happened by some strange cosmic accident.
Why? Do you think there is something special about you that makes such a thing unlikely? I have never observed anything like that.
Also, it seems to me that if the Atheistic view was accurate, their nature would be to simply get as much as they can, as quickly as they can, and anyway they can.
This is absolutely untrue. It is simply prejudice. Altruism and all it's manifestations are very useful evolved traits. Love of children and family, compassion for the injured, a willingness to defend the group at the cost of one's own life, all of these and more are altruistic traits useful to the species as a whole. The "still small voice" is just the promptings of our evolved altruistic traits. By the way, if you are actually hearing a voice rather then an emotional urge to act in a certain way, consider seeking help.
So now, the Atheist bashing done with (I consider someone saying 'deep down you have my God in your heart and you just won't acknowledge it' bashing) GDR proceeds to give us all the reasons he choose Christianity. I see no need to comment on any of that as it is all simple, unsupported opinion that it is GDR's right to hold. It is utterly personal and unconvincing.
One question that keeps getting raised in my mind is why do the vast majority of theists have their sudden, deep conversions about the socially acceptable faith in the society they were born and reside in?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by GDR, posted 06-01-2005 3:12 AM GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by GDR, posted 06-01-2005 2:13 PM mikehager has not replied
 Message 45 by lfen, posted 06-04-2005 11:45 AM mikehager has not replied

  
mikehager
Member (Idle past 6492 days)
Posts: 534
Joined: 09-02-2004


Message 11 of 111 (213087)
06-01-2005 12:58 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by jar
06-01-2005 12:27 PM


Re: Relative truth or absolute truth?
If that were really all Christianity taught the problems with it would certainly be lessened. Unfortunately, that is not the case. White washing Christianity and taking from it only what is socially considered good right now is spurious.
And as to the second part of your question, yes it does matter. He claimed it. People build their lives around it. Wars were fought and are being fought because of it. Personal cruelties and abuses are happening because of it. It damn sure matters morally if Christ was lying when he made his claims.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by jar, posted 06-01-2005 12:27 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by macaroniandcheese, posted 06-01-2005 1:07 PM mikehager has not replied
 Message 13 by jar, posted 06-01-2005 1:14 PM mikehager has not replied

  
mikehager
Member (Idle past 6492 days)
Posts: 534
Joined: 09-02-2004


Message 25 of 111 (213490)
06-02-2005 11:10 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by New Cat's Eye
06-01-2005 4:30 PM


Re: Relative truth or absolute truth?
I said why I believe. I wasn't under the impression that this thread was to offer "compelling reason" for others to believe.
And I pointed out some spurious assumptions you made in making your decision. You really don't like your faith being questioned, do you?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-01-2005 4:30 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied

  
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