Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 64 (9164 total)
3 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,889 Year: 4,146/9,624 Month: 1,017/974 Week: 344/286 Day: 65/40 Hour: 1/5


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Is the Bible inspired by God?
truthlover
Member (Idle past 4087 days)
Posts: 1548
From: Selmer, TN
Joined: 02-12-2003


Message 29 of 40 (46827)
07-22-2003 5:21 AM
Reply to: Message 27 by doctrbill
07-22-2003 1:49 AM


Hi, Bill. I was intrigued by your use of "every Scripture." The idea that Paul or anyone else considers every writing inspired of God seems a bit much, and I was shocked you or anyone else would suggest it. However, I felt better when you said "even he must have had his limits."
No, as far as I can tell, he never put down on anyones literature. Prove me wrong if you can. I should hear about it if it's true, yes?
Well, if anything written is literature, then this is easy, as he told the Thessalonians (2 Thess 2:2) not to be misled by letters that seemed to be from him.
I assume you'd agree, too, that any literature produced by those persons pushing circumcision would have been rejected by him as well. Correct? After all, he said he wouldn't put up with such teachings even for an hour.
Oh, and to add to your list, the "sawn in half" guy of Hebrews 11 was Isaiah, from "The Martyrdom of Isaiah." 2 Tim 3:8's Jannes and Jambres are from a writing called "Jannes and Jambres," no longer extant. (I realize the pastoral epistles are classified as doubtful, as far as Pauline authorship, but so is Hebrews, and you used that.)
And, while it's not Paul, Jude not only quotes First Enoch, but he references his quote and assigns authorship to the original Enoch. To this day, the Book of Enoch is part of the canon of the Ethiopian Orthodox church. Strangely enough, no fundamentalist I know agrees with Jude that Enoch wrote it, nor that the Book of Enoch is worth quoting or reading, and yet they consider Jude the Word of God. Odd.
I didn't know several of the sources you listed. Thanks.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by doctrbill, posted 07-22-2003 1:49 AM doctrbill has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by doctrbill, posted 07-22-2003 11:06 AM truthlover has not replied

truthlover
Member (Idle past 4087 days)
Posts: 1548
From: Selmer, TN
Joined: 02-12-2003


Message 30 of 40 (46834)
07-22-2003 5:45 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by Brian
07-21-2003 1:05 PM


Hi, Brian. Am I missing something in your description of Jesus' trial. Here's my thoughts.
Thirdly, are the contradictions and historical impossibilies in the accounts, the narratives have 'fiction' written all over them. for example, why was Jesus tried without witnesses, by Jewish law you were entitled to two witnesses?
I understood that there were many witnesses, and they contradicted themselves. I found Matthew 26:60-62 real quick, which said that, then said they finally got two to agree that Jesus had said he could destroy the temple and raise it up in three days.
Also, you couldnt be tried on your own testimony. The sanhedrin could only meet in the Temple and they meet could not meet at night. It was also Holy Week, another time that the Sanhedrin couldnt meet.
If Jesus was the problem that the Gospels said he was, then why would these rules stop powerful leaders from taking care of the problem? Maybe they couldn't meet during the holy week, but the holy week was also important enough to urge them to action of it was being thoroughly disrupted. And it seems to me that hundreds of people paving the streets with palm branches and declaring Jesus Messiah is a pretty serious disruption requiring pretty serious action.
I don't think rules about when not to meet would stop the Sanhedrin or any other leaders from taking care of such a problem.
The list goes on and on, why is there no record of the 'tradition' of the Romans releasing a prisoner at Passover?
This seems to carry more weight. I've always wondered, though, why anyone would make up something like that. It seems awful unlikely to me that the whole story is made up; i.e., that Jesus is a completely fictional character, so why add something like the Barabbas story? What's to be gained? Surely calling for Jesus' crucifixion would have sufficiently shown that the Jews rejected him, if that was the purpose. Adding Barabbas hardly makes them to have rejected him more.
For example, Luke mentions the Barabbas story, but in Acts, on the day of Pentecost, he doesn't have Peter bringing up Barabbas at all. He just accuses the crowd of crucifying Jesus (Acts 2:23), without having to bring up Barabbas.
So, I understand it's strange we have no record of releasing a prisoner at Passover, but why would someone make that up? Isn't it just as likely that it was done only a few years, that it happened in a small, relatively insignificant land, and no one mentioned it? Do the writings of the Jews discuss crucifixion and prisoners under Roman rule so much that it should be discussed in their writings even if it only happened a few years?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by Brian, posted 07-21-2003 1:05 PM Brian has not replied

truthlover
Member (Idle past 4087 days)
Posts: 1548
From: Selmer, TN
Joined: 02-12-2003


Message 31 of 40 (46840)
07-22-2003 6:06 AM
Reply to: Message 24 by Buzsaw
07-22-2003 12:01 AM


Israel enjoyed the good life and prosperity so long as they followed and obeyed the precepts of their scriptures.
It's always interesting to me how times change.
I read a debate between a Christian and a Roman polytheist that was written way back in AD 230, when the church couldn't have been more "literalist." It was before there was such a thing as a "Roman" Catholic church.
In the debate the Roman points out that the Christians are known for their poverty. Why should anyone follow a God, says the Roman, who takes such poor care of his followers? Octavius, the Christian, replies that for a traveler a light load is preferable to a large one.
I think Celsus argues the same way in his 2nd century attack on Christianity. I'd have to check that out, but the general view of very early Christians is that they were prone to poverty.
I would also add that you've been mentioning Finland, Buzsaw, but on the list earlier in the thread, Denmark was right behind them. I've not been to Finland, but I did live in Germany for nine years, and Denmark is the Las Vegas of Europe. You go there to get quick weddings and quick divorces, and Copenhagen is where you go for a good time.
I think social programs keep the gap between the rich and poor smaller in Europe. Swedes were taxed at over 50% of their income, last I heard. I don't know what a better standard of living means. You don't live in the country in a falling down home with a car with no wheels out front in Germany, because it's not allowed. On the other hand, the Germans I knew didn't seem to live any better than the Americans I knew. It'd be awful hard, in my opinion, to define that better or worse standard of living.
My experience is that Germans were very anti-fundamentalist overall. The exceptions are rare, and they live every bit as well as Americans. And if Christianity has become a myth to be scoffed at anywhere, it is in France, and I doubt that France's standard of living is any worse than the rest of Europe.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by Buzsaw, posted 07-22-2003 12:01 AM Buzsaw has not replied

Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024