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Author Topic:   The Biblical God Incompatible With Big Bang.
cavediver
Member (Idle past 3671 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 10 of 149 (379499)
01-24-2007 12:33 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Archer Opteryx
01-24-2007 12:16 PM


Instead of referring simply to something before and outside the Big Bang, try referring to something 'before' and 'outside' the Big Bang. The science types will see that you're savvy to the paradox and it might cool their jets a bit.
Yes, you're quite right... we will. Rather than replying
quote:
I'm sorry, you're talking bollocks
we'll try a different approach with
quote:
I'm sorry, you're talking 'bollocks'

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Archer Opteryx, posted 01-24-2007 12:16 PM Archer Opteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by Archer Opteryx, posted 01-24-2007 2:20 PM cavediver has not replied

  
cavediver
Member (Idle past 3671 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 12 of 149 (379511)
01-24-2007 1:11 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Buzsaw
01-23-2007 4:01 PM


1. Big Bang conventional science claims that space and time originated with the Big Bang as I understand it.
In the traditional sense of General Relativity, yes, although there are many extended scenarios where this is not the case. However, I would hesitate to call them 'Big Bang' scenarios as such, even though they contain the same observed expansion and other Big Bang features (CMBR, etc).
2. There was no outside of the BB and no before the BB as I understand conventional science to claim.
Yes, but with the same caveat as point 1.
3. The Biblical God claims to have no beginning nor end, being an eternal supreme being.
Would certainly agree to that.
4. The Biblical God claims to exist in a location in the universe where a throne, angels and other beings exist in the universe.
Huh? He does? Can I go visit then in my spacecraft? Should I be concerned if enough atheists (human or otherwise) decide to take a visit with an almighty arsenal of Planckian mega-bombs... I'm sure god will be fine, but those angels and that throne could take a beating! You'd have thought god would have learnt after that debacle with Ar-Pharazn...
5. Problem #1: No outside of means no space for God to exist in before the alleged BB.
How many dimensions of space does God require to enable his existence? And of time? Is he 3+1 (3d space + time) by nature, or is he more the 25+1 of bosonic string theory (I've always seen fermions as the devil's invention)
6. Problem #2: No before the alleged BB for God to have preceeded the BB according to conventional science.
If god is bound to our time and he is everywhere in our universe then do bits of him get destroyed in black hole singularities? Or does he withdraw his presence - just in time? Perhaps god has never seen inside an event horizon!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Buzsaw, posted 01-23-2007 4:01 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by Buzsaw, posted 01-25-2007 1:31 AM cavediver has replied
 Message 43 by Phat, posted 01-26-2007 6:06 AM cavediver has not replied

  
cavediver
Member (Idle past 3671 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 22 of 149 (379692)
01-25-2007 7:54 AM
Reply to: Message 19 by Buzsaw
01-25-2007 1:31 AM


Re: Jehovah, The Existing One. Heaven His Abode
Jehovah (the existing one/"I am"} exists in the universe by definition (in which all existing things exist).
Jesus, the man came from God's abode and returned there to sit on the right of God's throne, so yes, via Jesus's redemption you can go there carried up, not by spaceship but by ascending angels as per the resurrection/rapture in Mark 24:28.
You quote that and accuse the science of being meta-physical
Why cannot I travel to the throne by spacecraft if the throne exists in the universe? What physically stops me? How far away is it from here? And in which direction?
Go to Revelation 4 and you get a glimpse of God's abode with creatures accompaning him there to do his bidding.
I'm more than familiar with the description.
I can cite numerous scriptures you can't simply sweep under the proverbial rug so as to make you argument.
I can use allegorical and metaphorical scriptures to make any argument I please

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by Buzsaw, posted 01-25-2007 1:31 AM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by Buzsaw, posted 01-25-2007 12:01 PM cavediver has not replied

  
cavediver
Member (Idle past 3671 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 68 of 149 (380404)
01-27-2007 7:51 AM
Reply to: Message 47 by Buzsaw
01-26-2007 7:33 PM


Re: the system of heavens
4. From God's perspective from the heavens earth would have a circular shape as the sun and moon are to us, appearing as a disc.
All I can say, Buz, is that you have a very weird and unbelievably restrictive concept of God... and you're right: my theology is totally incompatible with your view. I won't be losing any sleep over it...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by Buzsaw, posted 01-26-2007 7:33 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
cavediver
Member (Idle past 3671 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 70 of 149 (380412)
01-27-2007 9:18 AM
Reply to: Message 69 by jordo
01-27-2007 9:00 AM


Re: Jesus is coming
I have the bird of truth in the freezer.
Suddenly Buz's ideas seem soooo much more sane...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by jordo, posted 01-27-2007 9:00 AM jordo has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 72 by iceage, posted 01-27-2007 9:48 AM cavediver has replied

  
cavediver
Member (Idle past 3671 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 75 of 149 (380427)
01-27-2007 10:23 AM
Reply to: Message 72 by iceage
01-27-2007 9:48 AM


Re: Jesus is coming
I have the bird of truth in the freezer.
I was thinking more of Sellers/Clouseau... French accent

This message is a reply to:
 Message 72 by iceage, posted 01-27-2007 9:48 AM iceage has not replied

Replies to this message:
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cavediver
Member (Idle past 3671 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 103 of 149 (380769)
01-28-2007 7:21 PM
Reply to: Message 101 by Buzsaw
01-28-2007 6:56 PM


Re: the system of heavens
The only place for Jehovah and things described around him is within the submicroscopid bit of space superdensely compacted in the hot speck.
God is spirit... end of this (exceptionally silly) discussion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 101 by Buzsaw, posted 01-28-2007 6:56 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
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cavediver
Member (Idle past 3671 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 146 of 149 (384168)
02-10-2007 11:36 AM
Reply to: Message 138 by Buzsaw
02-09-2007 8:43 PM


Re: Jehovah Now, Then And Forever IN The Universe.
Jehovah hath established his throne IN THE HEAVENS; And his kingdom ruleth over all
I'll make the same point again. If this refers to the actual heavens, i.e. the Universe, we must be able to approach this throne, or at least the vicinity of it. What would we see? Does it orbit a star? Or is it free floating in a void somewhere? How big is it? What happens when we send a fleet of ships to investigate?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 138 by Buzsaw, posted 02-09-2007 8:43 PM Buzsaw has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 147 by anastasia, posted 02-10-2007 2:10 PM cavediver has replied

  
cavediver
Member (Idle past 3671 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 148 of 149 (384202)
02-10-2007 2:25 PM
Reply to: Message 147 by anastasia
02-10-2007 2:10 PM


Re: Jehovah Now, Then And Forever IN The Universe.
Exactly

This message is a reply to:
 Message 147 by anastasia, posted 02-10-2007 2:10 PM anastasia has not replied

  
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