The Biblical God Incompatible With Big Bang.

1. Big Bang conventional science claims that space and time originated with the Big Bang as I understand it.2. There was no outside of the BB and no before the BB as I understand conventional science to claim.3. The Biblical God claims to have no beginning nor end, being an eternal supreme being.4. The Biblical God claims to exist in a location in the universe where a throne, angels and other beings exist in the universe.5. Problem #1: No outside of means no space for God to exist in before the alleged BB.6. Problem #2: No before the alleged BB for God to have preceeded the BB according to conventional science.How do our BB friends who profess the Biblical god as their god reconcile with problems 1 and 2?For promotion in the Faith And Belief Forum, please. Edited by Buzsaw, : Correct title

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28

1. By definition universe means everything existing.2. If space existed anywhere before the BB there would be an outside of the BB singularity event.3. Whenever I've tried to play the "outside of" or the "before" card in science debate I got emphatically advised that there were neither by resident BBists.Gotta leave for now I'll get to Omni and any others later.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28

Jehovah (the existing one/"I am"} exists in the universe by definition (in which all existing things exist).
Jesus, the man came from God's abode and returned there to sit on the right of God's throne, so yes, via Jesus's redemption you can go there carried up, not by spaceship but by ascending angels as per the resurrection/rapture in Mark 24:28.Go to Revelation 4 and you get a glimpse of God's abode with creatures accompaning him there to do his bidding.I can cite numerous scriptures you can't simply sweep under the proverbial rug so as to make you argument.It's way after my bedtime. My apologies for not getting to other responses. The responses are appreciated folks. The busy ole man's not speedy gonzoles but hopefully can get to some more tomorrow.According to what I'm reading from some of you people, your science is getting quite metaphysical, surreal and alegorical. The Biblical God is compatible with all three of the scientific laws of TD. If you can find it, see my great debate with Jar on that a few years ago in which he fell flat in his attempt to refute.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28

Note that I said the Biblical God. That does not apply to the YUC (young universe creationist) interpretation of Genesis 1 which leaves the YUCs with the same problem you folks have, God with no universe to be in.The Biblical record clearly implicates the following: In Jehovah God's Universe; time, energy and boundless space had no beginning and will have no ending. The universe, by and through his providence, is, has always been and forever will be intelligently designed, changed and managed. buzsaw

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28

Imo, in the after debate thread opened to all which went the full coarse of 10+ pages, nobody empirically refuted my position regarding God/TD laws. It wound up with debating the properties of space, the subject of which debate is ongoing among educated science people as to whether space is bounded or unbounded.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28

You could if you had the right equipment. My implication was meant to be that God requires sufficient credentials to get through those pearly gates and that as per the gospel is through the savior/advocate whose sacrificial offering paid for your gate pass. Otherwise you're world lofted little craft is toast.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28

How many of you evo BB Biblical theists have said the Lord's prayer. Do/did you mean it when you acknowledged God as existing IN Heaven?Other verses such as Matthew 5:45 declare that he exists in the heavens (Greek plural, ouponois) according to my Greek/English interlinear.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28

Jesus is/was corporeal and now exists in the same location in the universe as the Father/Jehovah according to the Biblical record. He declared that he would bodily return to earth at the 2nd advent to rule the kings of the earth from Jerusalem/Israel, meaning his body remains corporeal just as it was as he appeared after the resurrection. Thus the God of the Bible exists in a certain location of the celestial heavens of the universe.My friends, you're sweeping a lot under your proverbial rug and the lump of sweepings are getting obviously large.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28

The apostle Paul speaks of three heavens, the third of which he was given the opportunity to be transferred into on an occasion. He, Jesus, thousands of angels, the four beasts and 24 elders of Rev 4, Satan (along with other 'sons of God') all either reside in or have visited God's abode as per the record. Certainly all these didn't exit the universe, allegedly of which there is no outside of to be located at God's address. You're arguments are becoming weaker. Are you sure you want to keep on denying the facts so far as that the Bible teaches in spite of the evidence to the contrary?Don't forget, the title and OP which specifies the God of the Bible. We're not talking the mental concepts nor are we trying to prove or disprove the Biblical record as being true. We're talking what the Bible says.Gotta head out of town for a spell.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28

The topic relates only tot he Biblical record and not pagan ideology and/or astrological ideologies embeded in the non-Biblical cultures. To introduce other doctrines into the discussion is to obfuscate and distort what this debate is about. Just as the Biblical record is not the majority view in modern science, so it likely was then regarding gentile pagan nations who pretty much had the cultures of their nations based on non-Biblical doctrines and sciences.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28

If he resides in the heavens and if he is who he says he is, the eternal creator, go figure. He's always been some place in the heavens. He having no beginning and who never changes has always been creating and destroying to suit his purpose and pleasure. For him to be eternal there has had to be eternal heavens for him to manage and live in. There was no first thing in the universe, though all things came from him according to scripture in their own time and place. This satisfies LTD1. All of the energy of the universe came from God who likely works thermodynamically with the universe, constantly taking in and dispensing energy via his multipresent creative Holy Spirit, that member of the trinity which effects God's purpose and pleasure throughout the universe, angels and other creatures also working in the system under God's management. This is all of what is implied throughout the Biblical record.Genesis one does not designate which heaven's in the universe to which he is speaking. I take this statement in Genesis one to mean the heavens which pertain to planet earth which the book is about. That could be earth's layers of gases, our own solar system or possibly the Milky Way Galaxy in which the earth exists. The Genesis text does not state emphatically which heavens of the universe is being addressed.Science has also discovered layers of our own heavens blanketing the earth being the troposphere, the area of earth's weather being the first above which is the stratosphere having the ozone protective layer in its upper segment. Above these are the Menosphere and Ionosphere. Each of these four heavens have their own functions working together in harmony so as to make the earth livable and to function so wondrously. The Bible declares that the heavens declare the glory of God. Science, imo, has revealed the intracacies of the ecosystems of the world, all of which harmonize to make the planet function which I see as how the heavens attest to ID.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28

The Bible emphatically implies that time, energy and space are eternal, God being the source of all energy. An eternal universe emphatically implies eternal time and space. So far as being boundless, a bounded space, energy or time would X out the omnipotence of God, restricting him to alleged bounds. Also a literal reading of the Biblical account Xs out the BB which renders God, energy, space and time temporal as I have shown to be the case in other responses.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28

No it doesn't contradict. I debated the properties of space extensively in the thread following the GD. My Biblical position was that the only property of space is area, space having no other properties. Particles and other things, I consider to be in space and not properties of space perse. A boundless space would require this. To say God is space is counter to to the Biblical position, implying that he is nothing.NOTE: I am not debating the properties of space in this thread. I'm stating what I believe is emphatically implied in the Biblical description of God and creation et al and to what I see as logical. Mainline science alleges otherwise. However the position of mainline science is what I'm showing to be the problem BB Biblical theists face in ascribing to science's position. Yes. Thanks. We agree that the original atmosphere was not what we have today. That's why we IDists have a problem with dating methods which are based on our atmosphere as I understand them.As for the purpose of the spheric layers, this thread is not about that perse but for the sake of my argument about Genesis one, et al, they do have distinctive purposes as I understand.The Troposphere = climate/weather layer and pressure sensitivity areaThe stratosphere = jet stream and prevailing one way currents.The ozone layer in the upper stratosphere is where active oxygen absorbs/regulates the radiance of ultraviolet rays so as to make life possible et al. We moderns are learning how important this is an how accurate it needs to be for the ecosystem to function.Menosphere = buffer zone of particles, gasses et al which protect the earth from millions of meteors et al which burn up so as not to cause problems to earth in the lower atmospheric regions and earth's surface.Ionosphere/Thermosphere = Ionozation, sun photon regulator et al. (Also makes radio waves possible) Hmm -- Perhaps providential so as for gospel to be preached globally as per Jesus's prophecy in Olivet Discourse. (thrown in at no cost.)Then there's the exosphere, the highest layer which I didn't mention being for likely some good purpose and the only region from which atoms, particles et al can escape into outer space. Perhaps this is to balance what enters and exits earth's unbounded system. Just a logical guess.Abe: The Biblical record as per Genesis pre flood atmosphere is that it was even better than what we observe post flood, providing the earth with the perfect climate. Edited by Buzsaw, : No reason given.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28

I'm talking about the Biblical model, not the model of the 1st millenium and a half of the Christian religion. A lot of paganism infiltrated into Christianity in the 4th century under Constantine who introduced some of his old paganism into Christianity being ruler of both pagans and Christians when he became Christian.The Biblical model is that of Jesus and the writers of the NT as well as the OT. Edited by Buzsaw, : fix quote

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28

1. I'm familiar with the "circle of the earth." The Hebrew word for "circle" could indicate either a sphere or a flat circle, depending on context as the reader would see fit to render it.2. In Proverbs 8:27 this same word is used referring to the circular horizon of the ocean. In this verse the "circle of the face of the deep" uses the same word As Isaiah 40:22. In Proverbs it refers to the circular horizon of the ocean, not a flat earth.3. The Isaiah 40:22 context is from God's perspective where the heavens are depicted as a tent (not flat) over the earth.4. From God's perspective from the heavens earth would have a circular shape as the sun and moon are to us, appearing as a disc. The shape of the moon as we see it could be correctly said to be round. You paint a disc/circle if you paint the moon on an artist's canvas.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28