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Author Topic:   The Biblical God Incompatible With Big Bang.
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 91 of 149 (380594)
01-28-2007 12:58 AM
Reply to: Message 85 by jar
01-27-2007 11:28 PM


Re: Where Is Jesus?
Whatever. Believe what you want. I'm going by the scholars and assuming that reasonable folks who believe in the creed have enough sense to assume the Biblical ressurection as per the Bible is implied in the creed. Open a thread if you want to debate it with anyone who has lots of time on their hand for debating nonsense.


BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28
This message is a reply to:
 Message 85 by jar, posted 01-27-2007 11:28 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
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DrJones*
Member
Posts: 1868
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 92 of 149 (380595)
01-28-2007 1:11 AM
Reply to: Message 90 by Buzsaw
01-28-2007 12:51 AM


Re: the system of heavens
Or am I missunderstanding your point??

yes you are. My point is: North is a relative direction. If you are standing at the north pole, then in what direction is north? To say that heaven exists:
in the northern region of the cosmos relative to earth

is a meaningless statement as north only applies on Earth. In what direction from the Earth is "north".


Just a monkey in a long line of kings.
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist!
*not an actual doctor
This message is a reply to:
 Message 90 by Buzsaw, posted 01-28-2007 12:51 AM Buzsaw has responded

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iceage 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4087 days)
Posts: 1024
From: Pacific Northwest
Joined: 09-08-2003


Message 93 of 149 (380596)
01-28-2007 1:19 AM
Reply to: Message 92 by DrJones*
01-28-2007 1:11 AM


Re: the system of heavens
drjones writes:

In what direction from the Earth is "north"

Why in the direction of Polaris of course. Maybe Polaris is heaven?

I also know that taking a right at the second star, and straight on 'till morning leads one to Never Never land.


This message is a reply to:
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Vacate
Member (Idle past 2773 days)
Posts: 565
Joined: 10-01-2006


Message 94 of 149 (380597)
01-28-2007 1:25 AM
Reply to: Message 86 by Buzsaw
01-27-2007 11:29 PM


Re: the system of heavens
Perhaps it was at one time due north, the earth axis having been changed at some time, say at the Genesis Edenic curse or at ww flood time.

I am confused. What do you mean "due north"? Do you mean that the magnetic north is what you would refer to as true north/due north? (as opposed to the Earths north axis)

Edited by Vacate, : Clarity


This message is a reply to:
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anglagard
Member
Posts: 2189
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006


Message 95 of 149 (380605)
01-28-2007 2:19 AM
Reply to: Message 82 by Buzsaw
01-27-2007 10:48 PM


Re: the system of heavens
Buzsaw writes:

Entropy/2LTD energy can be managed by work (ID) as I understand the science of it.

The second law of thermodynamics states that in a closed system things like temperature, pressure, and density equalize over time. Entopy is the measure of how much this process of equalization has proceeded. How does the second law prove any of your speculations?

Why should I question the obvious arrangement of the cosmos as per modern tech to revert to what some believed before tech?

First, the arrangement of the cosmos is a scientific endeavor and is not generally associated with technology, which is applied science. Your sentence should read "Why should I question the obvious arrangement of the cosmos as per modern science to revert to what some believed before science?" Why are you using the term "tech?"

Second, the last time I looked, the Earth was a part of the cosmos, yet you continuously question the obvious arrangement of the Earth in other threads. You even question such obvious arrangement to the point of denying that 'light things float and heavy things sink' based upon the unfounded delusions of, in some cases, amateur guppy breeders and convicted criminals.

The geosciences are not alone in what you apparently dispute as all forms of scientific knowledge cover this small portion of the cosmos known as earth. From what I can gather, you seem to have a problem with all natural science including physics (cosmology), chemistry (radioactive decay), biology (evolution), and geology (everything). This rejection of post-medieval knowledge even extends to denying the principle of isostasy (light things float and heavy things sink). Additionally, you also seem to dispute modern medicine (germ theory of disease).

Naturally, you should be and are allowed to live in your own box. The problem starts when either you, or those of your ilk, demand that all reject the modern world which means poverty, disease, and eventual military conquest by foreign powers in favor of your wild speculations concerning Biblical prophecy. I notice that you dodged the question as to whether or not you have actually taken the trouble to read a single freshman college text in any natural science. How can one pronounce upon the truth or falsehood of any field they know virtually nothing about?

Speaking of science, so far I'm not seeing any scientific solutions to the OP problem posed in message one for our science minded BB Biblical theists. Can you come up with anything more scientific than what we have so far here in this thread to aleviate their problem?

The modern world seems to be a greater problem for you than it appears to be for any Biblical Theists that believe God created the universe , created the laws of the universe, and then allowed such a creation to proceed according to the laws of the universe that God set up. The singularity means that no one can observe prior to that point in time because there is no information. It has nothing to say about any speculative abode of God.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 82 by Buzsaw, posted 01-27-2007 10:48 PM Buzsaw has responded

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PaulK
Member
Posts: 15084
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 96 of 149 (380621)
01-28-2007 4:16 AM
Reply to: Message 80 by Buzsaw
01-27-2007 9:41 PM


Re: What the Bible says
Buz, have you not been reading my posts ? As I already pointed out the verses may refer to spirtual realities or they may be symbols. It is up to you to show that they definitely refer to a physical place.

In fact it's utterly bizarre that you should choose as one of your examples the four living creatures whose very appearance suggests that they aren't likely to be physical creatures as evidence that the verses must refer to something physical.

The one remaining point is Jesus. Now if I remember correctly Paul tells us that the resurrected body is a physical body ? And after the resurrection the descriptions of Jesus have him mysteriouly appearing and disappearing. And then there's the ascension to consider. And unless you reject the idea of the Trinity Jesus is God - and since GOd is a spirit, why wouldn't Jesus have returned to spirtual form ?

(And let's add that even if you can address these points you astill haven't shown anything about the situation before our Universe began which is the key point of your argument)


This message is a reply to:
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PaulK
Member
Posts: 15084
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 97 of 149 (380629)
01-28-2007 4:28 AM
Reply to: Message 86 by Buzsaw
01-27-2007 11:29 PM


Re: the system of heavens
[quote]
It seems that to effect the Genesis flood God would have done something significant to the planet to cause the condensation of the atmospheric H2O.
[/quiote]

No, it seems that YECs (NOT ID'ers in general - as you know very well) invent a lot of gobbledygook to try to blame God for the fact that the evidence proves them wrong. It's really a piece of quite blatant dishonesty because there is no explanation of how it could possibly work ((and you know that, too - or you ought to).


This message is a reply to:
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jar
Member
Posts: 30997
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 4.2


Message 98 of 149 (380653)
01-28-2007 8:58 AM
Reply to: Message 91 by Buzsaw
01-28-2007 12:58 AM


So once again Buz just denies reality and hand waves evidence away
Whatever. Believe what you want. I'm going by the scholars and assuming that reasonable folks who believe in the creed have enough sense to assume the Biblical ressurection as per the Bible is implied in the creed. Open a thread if you want to debate it with anyone who has lots of time on their hand for debating nonsense.

So once again when presented with the actual text that refutes your assertion you simply try to change the subject and hand wave the evidence away. I notice you slyly try to hide the fact that you used the word "bodily" earlier. You also try to misdirect folks attention by switching to "the Bible" where earlier the subject was the Nicene Creed.

Why is it Buz that when presented with the actual texts that refute your nonsense assertions you always avoid dealing with the actual evidence?

You don't have to remain ignorant about Christianity Buz, many of us are willing to try to help you learn at least the very basics.

The issue is really very simple as I pointed out to you up thread. There are two events, the Resurrection and the Ascension. There is nothing about the Ascension to make anyone think that Jesus post Ascension is some bodily critter.

Buz, all of your efforts to make God and Jesus some physical beings simply diminishes GOD, trivializes GOD, turns GOD from being SuperNatural into simply natural.

Why must you continuously try to turn GOD into some picayune bling-bling pimp daddy?


Aslan is not a Tame Lion
This message is a reply to:
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Archer Opteryx
Member (Idle past 1770 days)
Posts: 1811
From: East Asia
Joined: 08-16-2006


Message 99 of 149 (380750)
01-28-2007 5:29 PM
Reply to: Message 93 by iceage
01-28-2007 1:19 AM


Re: God is in his holy Penthouse
Maybe Polaris is heaven

Give Buz credit for at least proposing something falsifiable. His godlet's loft apartment--complete with furniture, pets and entourage--should be visible to the Hubble Space Telescope. Buz even knows which sector of the sky to sweep.

Any figure spotted on the godlet's right would be Jesus. Expect him to be browsing office furniture catalogs in preparation for his big promotion. (Dad promised him a gig as mayor of Jerusalem.)

___

Edited by Archer Opterix, : HTML.

Edited by Archer Opterix, : messing around.

Edited by Archer Opterix, : typo repair.


Archer

All species are transitional.


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kuresu
Member (Idle past 686 days)
Posts: 2544
From: boulder, colorado
Joined: 03-24-2006


Message 100 of 149 (380761)
01-28-2007 6:35 PM
Reply to: Message 86 by Buzsaw
01-27-2007 11:29 PM


Re: the system of heavens
hey buz, there ain't one massive magnetic field in the universe. once you leave the magnetic field of this planet, you have no more "north".

besides, which way is north in a 3-D world? we think of the earth's surface in terms of 2-D when it comes to directions. you travel left, right, forward, backwards (often referred to as up and down, but these are being used in a horizontal sense, not a vertical sense).

in space, you have freedom of movement in every direction. which one is north?


This message is a reply to:
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Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 101 of 149 (380764)
01-28-2007 6:56 PM
Reply to: Message 95 by anglagard
01-28-2007 2:19 AM


Re: the system of heavens
anglagard writes:

The modern world seems to be a greater problem for you than it appears to be for any Biblical Theists that believe God created the universe , created the laws of the universe, and then allowed such a creation to proceed according to the laws of the universe that God set up. The singularity means that no one can observe prior to that point in time because there is no information. It has nothing to say about any speculative abode of God.

The problem is with the information your theists claim to have which leads back to the singularity. It leaves the BB theist with no before and no outside of for the Biblical god Jehovah and things around him to exist. The BB alegedly was a submicroscopic bit of space containing all the energy and space the universe now consists of. The only place for Jehovah and things described around him is within the submicroscopid bit of space superdensely compacted in the hot speck.


BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28
This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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PaulK
Member
Posts: 15084
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 102 of 149 (380766)
01-28-2007 7:14 PM
Reply to: Message 101 by Buzsaw
01-28-2007 6:56 PM


Re: the system of heavens
I don't see why the other things have to exist before the universe - if they literally exist at all. And if they are spirits rather than material beings why would space matter to them ?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 101 by Buzsaw, posted 01-28-2007 6:56 PM Buzsaw has not yet responded

    
cavediver
Member (Idle past 1816 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 103 of 149 (380769)
01-28-2007 7:21 PM
Reply to: Message 101 by Buzsaw
01-28-2007 6:56 PM


Re: the system of heavens
The only place for Jehovah and things described around him is within the submicroscopid bit of space superdensely compacted in the hot speck.

God is spirit... end of this (exceptionally silly) discussion :)


This message is a reply to:
 Message 101 by Buzsaw, posted 01-28-2007 6:56 PM Buzsaw has responded

Replies to this message:
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kuresu
Member (Idle past 686 days)
Posts: 2544
From: boulder, colorado
Joined: 03-24-2006


Message 104 of 149 (380773)
01-28-2007 7:32 PM
Reply to: Message 101 by Buzsaw
01-28-2007 6:56 PM


Re: the system of heavens
is your faith in god based on the holes that science has yet to explain?

come on, for an all-powerful god, he doesn't seem to have much power over where he gets put. if I were you, I'd let him be all-powerful and be the mover of what we call the natural world--not the king of the hole.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 101 by Buzsaw, posted 01-28-2007 6:56 PM Buzsaw has responded

Replies to this message:
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Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 105 of 149 (380782)
01-28-2007 7:48 PM
Reply to: Message 92 by DrJones*
01-28-2007 1:11 AM


Re: the system of heavens
DrJones writes:

My point is: North is a relative direction. If you are standing at the north pole, then in what direction is north? To say that heaven exists:
in the northern region of the cosmos relative to earth

is a meaningless statement as north only applies on Earth. In what direction from the Earth is "north".

If I were standing on the North Pole, I would think the direction of Polaris would be the celestial north relative to earth. That's essentially what I've been trying to say, that there is a celestial region relative to earth's axis considered to be north where the northern constellations are.


BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28
This message is a reply to:
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