Honour Amongst Christians

If a king is petitioned by his subjects to correct a problem, or grant a pardon, is he dishonorable in doing so because they already asked?I'm really confused as to whose honor you are discussing....And why you think mankind is honorable.

I don't think honor, in the way you're discussing it, has anything to do with honesty.Also, a person in need of a pardon has much bigger things to worry about than honor.Edited by Creationista, : No reason given.

"No offense, but you saying I'm in need of a pardon does not make it so."I did not say you were in need of a pardon. I was discussing the individual in my hypothetical."I wouldn't ask for a pardon. I would either deserve it, or I wouldn't."No one deserves a pardon, or else it would be an exoneration and not a pardon. A pardon refers to being released from responsibility for a wrong you have done. People who have done wrongs do not deserve to be pardoned.

I'm going to simplify this a little. Actually, a lot. But the idea is the same. I have an ice cream cone. In fact, I have two. One for me, and maybe one for you. But, If you do not like ice cream, giving you one is a waste. So, I ask you if you want it. You saying "Yes, please" in no way cheapens my giving you a gift. It in no way makes you less "deserving" or "honorable". It's simply more efficient.Now, naturally, if "salvation" is necessary, then it's a little more important than "Do you want ice cream". However, I do not truly see how asking for forgiveness when it is offered is really any different. You can stand in line for food, but no one will give it to you until you tell them what you want. And then, you will starve, and it will not be anyone's fault. Some people have their own food. Some people need to get it from someone else.I guess the point is, the offer is already made on things like this; you just have to accept it. If you do not need what is being offered (and there is sufficient evidence to suggest that the jury is still out on whether everyone needs it or not) or you do not like what is being offered, then don't take it. But it's more about accepting, I feel, than begging.Edited by Creationista, : No reason given.

"In fact, I've already silently wondered if anyone is attempting to give me a gift and I just can't hear them for whatever reason, and in that case I have already asked for (or accepted) the gift as well.I haven't received any confirmation yet, though. But that may very well be irrelevent."I think that the most serious problems in human spirituality are that we insist on Neon signs and that we are not willing to accept that the point of religion is really to release us from responsibility and guilt for the things we cannot control or change about ourselves, rather than to show us what awful things we are and why we must continually castigate ourselves.

"what makes you think you are able to accurately perceive and judge truth? "What makes you think you are?"Or would it be safer to conclude that you accept that you are reliant on something other than yourself to guide you to the truth - if ever you are to get there. That someone else must fly your plane home for you."Doesn't selecting the correct person to "fly your plane home for you" require being able to accurately perceive and judge truth? If that is the case, how do you know that you have accurately selected the correct pilot and he has not?

"Irrelevant."No, it isn't irrelevant. You're trying to tell him that his selection process is flawed. That means that you have to know that yours isn't."If the set-up is such that your correct selection forms part of things then yes. If not then no. And failing a way to be sure we are accurately perceiving and judging truth, our conclusion must be that our correctly selecting doesn't form a part of the set-up"You'll have to repeat that while using clearer language."I've already landed. And found out that he selected me. "According to your potentially wonky compass, you have landed. How can you be sure? If you can't, then how can you tell him that his selection process is flawed?