The Problem of Evil

How does one communicate 'verbally'? If you mean spoken, then the word is 'orally'.
It is also 'we non-native', and English should be capped, with all due respect. I would hyphenate proof-read, or better still, use proofread.
I hope that helps, I realize it was late.Best of luck with your plans.

are you on drugs? I've got to ask?where did I refer to you?

Please understand that I can only give you my opinion.IMHO, the difference between Sin and Evil is in the degree and intent.While evil is always sinful, sin may not be evil.We, whether Christian, Atheist, Agnostic or just about any other condition, are imperfect beings. Things like what you have mentioned, rage, envy, jealousy, anger, are unfortunately part of being human.One of the things we all try to do, Atheist and Christian alike, is to not act on such thoughts. This goes back to my basis on the two commandments. Remember, the second commandment is a two parter, love others as you love yourself. That implies that you actually must love yourself and is an important consideration. It provides the standard, the baseline for behavior.So within that set of bounds, we try not to do things that we would not want done to us.If you look at one of the Prayers of Confession from the BCP, it reads as follows: Notice that it follows pretty much what I've been saying. It includes thoughts, words and deeds, things we have done and those we have left undone, love of GOD, others and ourselves.But it also recognizes that we can and will try to do better.Evil though is a willful disregard of all of that. It is actions without remorse, in fact taking pleasure in doing wrong with no intent to behave otherwise.edited to add requesite spelling errors.This message has been edited by jar, 08-11-2004 12:56 PM

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Thanks Ja'.I think you're right. Nobody has infact decided on the definition.Infact, was it you who said natural calamities were interpreted as evil?This would be consistent with the bible. In the book of Job - they insist Job is sinful because evil has come upon him. Yet a natural occurence of a roof blowing in on his children is obviously an "evil" that's upon him. Again, this agrees with the book of Isaiah - that the evil of people's doings visits them. Yet Job was a rarity - as God knew he was righteouss, but rather satan was involved.Also - there are three "love" in the bible. Always - the bible will say "love" in english. But I think there are three "levels".So infact God creating evil, could simply be that God is visiting the sins of people, through "causing" say - a natural event. Hope that helps. As for evil, it's hard to define.

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Hhhmmmmmm. "They". Shall I also be a bit skeptical like Jason? I mean - I personally think that you're just saying "they" call you evil to back up your position, but then, please convince me otherwise.

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Ummm, you lost me there. I don't really get what you're trying to say. I know enough and feel bad enough whenever "they" (as in people here, in my country, around me) call me evil in believing things that I believe in outside of the theology of their religion. I know they mean I'm someone bad or someone who's doing wrong to other people even though I don't really feel I'm doing anything wrong or bad. At least, that's what I think they mean.I like hanging out with people who are objective and accept different views as possibilities of a probable fact -given the proper evidence has been presented to prove it's fact-. I usually find those qualities in scientific minded people. I always tend to feel uncomfortable whenever I talk to my theologist professors. This is just my opinion according to my own feelings so don't be angry at me.This message has been edited by Tel Rinsiel, 08-11-2004 01:21 PM

Guys - I'm a little disappointed that for all the talk of christian morals and the like - that your first reaction to a new poster is to accuse them of being a liar and not who they appear to be.Christian love and understand only words or something?

Fair enough.You see, I'm sure that scientific "they"s are also in existence.Did you know, that there are objective religious scientists?But hey - if you mean "they" as people, then you are making more sense in my book.God bless.

Listen, your side says be logical and objective. An objective logician will not simply assume that she is who she says she is.It is a logical possibility - that Asgara is the newbie. Whether you like it or not.But now I'll return to christian mode (geez - which one d'ya want) - I doubt she isn't who she says she is, but we hardly called her a liar, we were just not assuming, we were trying to be objective. Maybe we are just being defensive me and Jason - as we don't recall calling anyone evil, when we read "they" - but since "they" are now people - I'll get back in my pram.

what a weasel answer - nice to see your true colours however!

The concept of hell as espoused by the RCC is purely an RCC invention. There are not now and there will never be, people or souls screaming in hell for mercy.
Malachi 3:4 tells you how it works4 See, the day is coming, burning like an oven, when all the arrogant and all evildoers will be stubble; the day that comes shall burn them up, says the LORD of hosts, so that it will leave them neither root nor branch. 2But for you who revere my name the sun of righteousness shall rise, with healing in its wings. You shall go out leaping like calves from the stall. 3And you shall tread down the wicked, for they will be ashes under the soles of your feet, on the day when I act, says the LORD of hosts.The bible speaks of 'eternal punishment', not 'eternal punishing'. The difference is as day is from night.And then there is Malachi 4Malachi 4:1-6 The day shall come that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all the wicked shall be chaff. And they shall burn them up and shall leave them neither root nor branch. But unto you them that fear My Name shall the Son of Righteousness arise with healing in His wings; and you shall go forth and grow up as calves of the stall. You shall tread upon the wicked, for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet.The RCC had/has much to gain by saying otherwise. That does, however, not change the truth.It speaks of destruction - as in completely destroyedWhat if God, willing to show his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering vessels of wrath fitted unto destruction (Rom. 9:22)."And these will go away into eternal punishment,
but the righteous into eternal life" (Matt. 25:46).It does not say 'eternal punishing', but the effects of the event are eternal.

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"Let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit!"
2 Cor. 7:1

Have you actually anything to contribute bloke? Other than emotional side-banter when you can't have christians banished from the site?So far I'm a weasel on drugs. How immoral of you, and you call yourself an atheist! Ned puts you to shame! Maybe I should preach hell-bound sermons. Nevertheless, quote ONE that I have made!!!! Hah!!

I'm not actually an atheist.

Okay then - bible unbeliever.Spare me the "how unchristian" rant. I don't care if I'm an inflatable atheist Jew on heat, as long as I believe in Christ and am written in his book.Listen - if it comforts you, I even doubt that she isn't who she says she is. But one must be open-minded.It's easy to "assume" something. If I say "that's my dad" - and point to the man and a pot next to him then naturally you will assume he(my dad) is not the pot right?........But his ashes could be inside the pot!This message has been edited by mike the wiz, 08-11-2004 01:14 PM

That's what I said! The idea being that if the "permitter" is also the "creator", permission and creation of sin are synonomous, as the end of your Edwards quote goes on to state: If something is certain within a permission, than the permission is also the creation. And that is a very, very poor analogy - Because the sun is not the creator of the rules governing the light/warmth/dark/cold. If the sun had created those rules, it would have known that its absence would bring dark and cold, and so would have also been the creator of the dark and cold: So God created evil passively, rather than actively - not much of distinction; like claiming that I did not create a car accident, because I only took my hands off the wheel, and thus had no "positive" hand in the situation, even though I knew what would "necessarily follow".It would be nice to hear your arguments in your own words - the Edwards quotes are contradictory and at times argue against the point you are trying to make.

Hi Jason, I mean just what is says. The teachings of the Holy Roman Catholic church and it's associated dogma are bound in mystery and tradition. Not fact. They are beliefs. Just as every sentence in the Nicean creed begins with: "We believe" It is utter arrogance to suggest to a forum filled with agnostics and atheist that biblical writings and mythology are based on verifiable evidence.

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"One is punished most for ones virtues" Fredrick Neitzche