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Author Topic:   Truth is Relative
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 4 of 65 (415423)
08-10-2007 1:42 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Jon
08-09-2007 2:04 PM


Is truth relative?
There is no absolute truth
Is this statement truthful or not?
No matter how you phrase it, you'll end up committing a fatal flaw. You can't deny an absolute without asserting another.
Even if someone were to say, truth is relative. That would mean that its sometimes true, depending on the circumstances, but not at other times. Because even if truth were relative, then that its always relative. And that's an absolute phenomenon.
Is evolution truth?
A great question. Well, is it? Is it true some of the time, but not at other times? Is that coherent?
I think the answer is overwhelmingly obvious, don't you?

"It is not the critic who counts, not the man who points out how the strong man stumbled, or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena; whose face is marred by the dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs and comes short again and again; who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions and spends himself in a worthy course; who at the best, knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who, at worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly; so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory or defeat."
-Theodore Roosevelt

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Jon, posted 08-09-2007 2:04 PM Jon has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by NosyNed, posted 08-10-2007 3:58 AM Hyroglyphx has replied
 Message 7 by ReverendDG, posted 08-10-2007 4:53 AM Hyroglyphx has replied
 Message 9 by Dr Jack, posted 08-10-2007 7:23 AM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 11 of 65 (415493)
08-10-2007 12:50 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by NosyNed
08-10-2007 3:58 AM


Re: English
quote:
No matter how you phrase it, you'll end up committing a fatal flaw. You can't deny an absolute without asserting another.
Nope, the problem here isn't logic or philosophy. You are dealing with self referential statements. English doesn't seem to handle them well.
You don't prove anything beyond that even if you think it is ever such clever philosophy.
That's the next assault that automatically comes-- that a language is fluid, and therefore, terms are sometimes indistinguishable.
The concept of absolutes and relativity are understood well Ned (look, we seem to be understanding ourselves just fine).
You cannot deny an absolute without asserting another, Ned. That's just the plain fact about it.
Examples:
1. There is no truth.
2. Truth is relative.
3. There are no absolutes.
And so on...

"It is not the critic who counts, not the man who points out how the strong man stumbled, or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena; whose face is marred by the dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs and comes short again and again; who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions and spends himself in a worthy course; who at the best, knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who, at worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly; so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory or defeat."
-Theodore Roosevelt

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by NosyNed, posted 08-10-2007 3:58 AM NosyNed has not replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 15 of 65 (415562)
08-10-2007 8:56 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by ReverendDG
08-10-2007 4:53 AM


Re: Is truth relative?
its a paradox and a meaningless one at that
There is nothing paradoxical or meaningless about it, DG. Better yet, is what you said absolutely true?
a better one would be To say that there are no absolute truths is the closest possible thing to an absolute truth.
But by saying it, you are using one, in which case, if there really were not, then what you've just said is meaningless. Saying there are no absolutes is employing an absolute in order to deny it at the same time.

"It is not the critic who counts, not the man who points out how the strong man stumbled, or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena; whose face is marred by the dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs and comes short again and again; who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions and spends himself in a worthy course; who at the best, knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who, at worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly; so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory or defeat."
-Theodore Roosevelt

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by ReverendDG, posted 08-10-2007 4:53 AM ReverendDG has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by ReverendDG, posted 08-12-2007 8:01 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 16 of 65 (415570)
08-10-2007 9:32 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by Parasomnium
08-10-2007 5:22 PM


Re: Some truths are relative, others are absolute
No, some truths are relative, others are absolute.
An example of a relative truth is your coloured triangle. Colour is a private mental experience, and it makes a difference whether the experiencer is a human, a dog, or an ant. In the outside world colour does not exist, so anything you say about colour is at most a relative truth.
An example of absolute truth is the fact that there are infinitely many rational numbers
Well said.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by Parasomnium, posted 08-10-2007 5:22 PM Parasomnium has not replied

  
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