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Author Topic:   Truth is Relative
Itachi Uchiha
Member (Idle past 5640 days)
Posts: 272
From: mayaguez, Puerto RIco
Joined: 06-21-2003


Message 17 of 65 (415582)
08-10-2007 11:54 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Jon
08-09-2007 2:04 PM


Playing with words
quote:
It is argued in these forums, and in other places, that morality is a concept based on relative perspectives; a subjective not rooted in any one supreme belief, nor maintained by a grand master keeper of right and wrong.
If morality is the subject being considered here then I guess most of us can agree that a "grand master keeper of right and wrong" is not needed. As Christopher Hitchens rightly writes (in his book god is not Great), the Jews didn't need Moses to bring them the ten commandments for them to know what was right from wrong.The Jews and other cultures of different religions knew without the intervention of any god that things like rape, stealing, lying, murder, etc are immoral. Our morality is based (at least mine is) on the golden rule. i dont need a god to not do unto others what i dont want others to do to me.
When it comes down to a truth or Truth we better watch out and not fall into word games that come out from using to much logic(the type I've been reading in the previous posts). In my experience of talking to people about lots of things a Truth is never reached when different perspectives on the subject are present. A Truth can apparently be found only in math and science where there are no opinions only facts (I'm excluding theories here I'm talking about the unalterable laws only). 2+2 will always be 4 no matter our opinion on the subject.
Religion is subject to opinions and interpretations (the reason for the existence of so many sects especially inside Christianity) therefore I believe until now that finding a Truth in it would be highly improbable.

Mangekyo Sharingan. Youre trapped in my genjutsu now!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Jon, posted 08-09-2007 2:04 PM Jon has not replied

  
Itachi Uchiha
Member (Idle past 5640 days)
Posts: 272
From: mayaguez, Puerto RIco
Joined: 06-21-2003


Message 24 of 65 (415743)
08-11-2007 8:26 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by AnswersInGenitals
08-11-2007 1:14 AM


Re: Not clear that math has absolutes.
quote:
2 + 2 = 1 (modulo 3). There are just a finite number of rational numbers if you are considering a finite field. Two parallel lines: 1) never meet; 2) always meet; 3) don't exist depending on what geometry you are considering. At one time, each of these mathematical statements was considered to be absolutely untrue and even to be absurd until a more advanced (more general) mathematical structure was discovered (or invented, depending on your beliefs). So, even if there was total agreement that some statement were absolutely true, might that just be a temporary consensus awaiting discovery of a larger but more tenuous truth?
Don't get to technical or you'll miss the point.
1) 2+2=1 (modulo 3) Please explain as I am not familiar with this. I haven't had a situation in my short engineering career or at any time in my life for that matter where I had 2 of something and 2 more of that same something and ended with 1 of it.
2) Missed why you mention that there are a finite number of rational numbers if you are considering a finite field. If we are talking about finding a Truth I guess theres no point in limiting the field because then that would be a truth. Let the number line be what it is; infinite.
3) Don't understand as well why you bring up parallel lines. Is that a multiple choice question for me?
4) To answer your question I think I established a difference between theories and laws for my simple analysis. I guess I agree when you say that another truth can be discovered that would make 2+2=3 correct and the accepted 2+2=4 wrong. But since that is so highly improbable if not impossible, I'm sticking with it as a Truth and not a truth.
quote:
Would the statement "There are no absolute statements, except for this one." solve the conundrum of the self-contradictory statements discussed in previous posts? Or, is this issue just a distraction from the intent of the OP?
No. It would be better to just say "The only absolute statement is this one" and we would easilya void self-contradiction with it. I don't see a distraction if things are expressed correctly.
quote:
Some logicians attempt to bypass the problems of the self-referential statement but still create the innately contradictory situation through use of set theory: Define "S" to be the set of all sets that do not contain themselves as an element. Does S contain itself as an element? I actually don't see the difference or that anything has been achieved in this way.
Agreed. It raises more questions than it gives answers

Mangekyo Sharingan. Youre trapped in my genjutsu now!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by AnswersInGenitals, posted 08-11-2007 1:14 AM AnswersInGenitals has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by riVeRraT, posted 08-14-2007 7:21 AM Itachi Uchiha has not replied

  
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