Would Evolutionists accept evidence for Creation?

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When the earth was divided the oceans were formed and the mountains were formed..

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The Bible doesn't say anything like that. The division seems to refer to the peoples dividing up after Babel. There's no mention of the land mass dividing up or of volcanoes forming. And of course we know that there were volcanoes and continental drift happening long before there were any humans on the scene.Even if your scenario did happen we'd find evidence of the Flood - it wouldn't erase everything. But we don't. And we don't find real evidence for your scenario or even the Babel story either.

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Lets see what the Bible says:

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Indeed we will.

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Language got changed. People scattered all over the face of the earth. (land mass)

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So, no mention of the land-mass dividing or volcanoes.

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Peleg was alive after the division.

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They wouldn't name a dead person after something that happened after he died, so of course he was. Not that the verse you quote actually says any such thing.

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Earth was divided. The land mass was separated. The people had already been scattered.

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So even you admit that there was no mention of volcanoes. And there's no suggestion that the scattering had already happened - nor is there an explicit reference to the land mass dividing. You should ask yourself why, if this event is so important you believe that it was only mentioned vaguely in passing.On the other hand Genesis 10:32 says: Why should this separation not be the division mentioned in 10:25 ?

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People scattered all over the face of the earth.
I am sure the animals were roaming where ever they chose.
The earth was divided. Continents separated which caused oceans to form and mountains.

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The Bible does not say that the division took the form of the land physically moving. It does not say that the continents formed at that time. It does not say that mountains formed at that time. That is a scenario of your invention.

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I am not presenting a scenario. I am just pointing out what the Bible says.

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Then why did you not produce the verse which says that mountains were built by this division ? Or the verse which says that it caused volcanoes to erupt ? Or the verse which says that it caused continents to form ? I'll tell you why. It is because you are presenting a scenario of your own invention - not simply pointing out what the Bible says.

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I am presenting no timeline as the Bible gives none.

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Then how can you say that the scattering at the Tower of Babel happened before the division of the lands ? It seems that that, too, is part of your scenario - and not something the Bible says.

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Gen. 1:10 Land in one place.
Gen. 10:25 Earth divided in Peleg's lifetime.
Gen. ll:9 people scattered abroad on the face of the earth.
Gen. ll:17 Peleg still around.

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So no mention of continents or mountains forming.And what makes you think that Genesis 11:17 comes chronologically after Genesis 11:9 ?(And here's what Genesis 1:10 really says: So no, it doesn't say that the land was just in one place)Edited by PaulK, : No reason given.

Everyone agrees that the Bible is collection of works. Why would proving an event in one correct prove all the events in another ? And then there are the contradictions. If we prove that there was a census of Judaea under Quirinius how could it prove that Jesus was born then - AND that he was born more than ten years earlier ?And why isn't the Koran a good example ? The Koran even claims to be the direct word of God - unlike the Bible.

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They are mentioned in that order and Peleg lived to be 239 years old.

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There are just two problems with that. Firstly Peleg also appears BEFORE the Babel story in Chapter 10 - and that's the reference you're reading as referring to massively accelerated continental drift suddenly occuring (contrary to scientific understanding). Secondly you would have to say that Genesis 11:10 also comes after the Babel story: So by that thinking you would have to put the Babel story before Noah's Flood - which of course appears even earlier in Genesis. Your rule can't be consistently applied.What we really have is:Chapter 10 is a listing of descendants of Noah's sons, who separate to found the nations. It is not unreasonable to consider that the Babel story marks that separation and that is the event that Peleg is named for. This interpretation fits the text and doesn't require us to assume that the event Peleg was named for mysteriously got left out of the Bible.Chapter 11 is the Babel story and a more detailed listing of Shem's descendants. Which suggests that the Bebel story - which is not otherwise dated - took place in the lifetimes of at least some of those listed. There's nothing in the Bible that rules out the possibility that it is the event that Peleg is named for.

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I went digging in some of my old school stuff and run across some notes where we studied that Peleg was about 50 years old when the tower of Babel was built which was around 2200 BC. That would have put him living about 189 years after Babel.

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You mean that he would have DIED 189 years after Babel by that estimation. But what's the basis for it ? You yourself said that the Bible didn't provide a timeline and the Babel story doesn't contain anything to date it in relation to the genealogy.

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If he was named for the event he went along time without a name.

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IF the estimate you refer to is correct. But you've offered no reason to think that it is. In fact you said that there ISN'T any way to know when Babel happened, other than sometime in the period covered in the genealogies.

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The Hebrew word translated earth in Genesis 10:25 is the same as the one in Genesis 1:1.

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IIRC that word has a wide usage (similar to the English "land") - it can refer to all of the land on the planet or just a single geographical area.

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I did not say events could not be figured out from the genealogies of the lifetime of the people that was involved.

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So please explain how the time of the Babel story can be figured out, instead of dodging the question.

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You mentioned time in several messages then in Re: Re-Flood (Message 56) You as much as said my understanding was competely off as the time was all messed up.

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In fact I pointed out that just relying on the order of the verses to work out the order of events was messed up. And I explained exaclty why it was messed up. So in fact I pointed out that your method of working out a timeline didn't work.

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I then went digging for notes as to why I believed what I did. I also went and found a Bible Timeline that is taken from the genealogies of the ages of the men in the Bible.

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Which is only of use to this discussion if you can produce an actual date for the Babel story out of it. So are you going to explain how that is done ?

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But I know you do not believe the Bible so it does not make any difference as you believe it is just a pack of lies anyway.

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Just because I believe that those parts of the Bible are myth and legend doesn't mean that I don't care about representign them accurately. YOu would think that people who beleive that they are true would also care about that. Oddly enough it appears that they don't.

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According to historical books;
1757-1996 Peleg (239)
1908-2123 Nimrod (215)
1948 Nimrod (40) begins his reign.
1993 The Tower of Babel falls.

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WHich historical books ? How do they work the date out ?
Have you noticed that it is DIFFERENT from the last source you used, by well over 100 years ?

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It is obvious Peleg was not named for the scattering of the people.
Genesis 11:8 scattered = #wp = to scatter, be dispersed, be scattered
Genesis 10:25 divided = glp = to divide, split, cleave

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If it's so obvious then why can't you come up with any valid arguments ?And why are you so determined to add a major scientific error into the Bible anyway ?

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According to this chart: Status code 404
which pushes the events the furthest in Peleg's life.

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"Some guy says so" is not a valid argument. What's that basis for the chart - in particular how does it calculate the date when the Babel story supposedly happened ?

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His name Peleg did not mean to scatter, be dispersed, be scattered.

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His name was Peleg which means to divide, split, cleave, and it said this was done to the earth not the inhabitants of the earth.

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Attempting to nit-pick the wording is also not a valid argument. The land was divided between the nations.

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I am saying if the Bible is true or false this is what it describes is happening.

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And you're wrong. That is your interpretation - and one you have great difficulty supporting. The absence of any direct reference to the event or any explicit reference to a physical division of the land is a difficulty you need to deal with.And if the Bible did say that then it would be WRONG. So I ask again, why are you so determined to read a major scientific error into the Bible ? Is it that important to you that the Bible should say what you want ?

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My original comments on this is that if this is what happened and it happened after the flood how would you find a flood layer that would be readable if mountains were formed and the different oceans formed.

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Yes. And that layer would be millions of years old because thats how long it would take for mountains to form and for different oceans to form. Since Noah's Flood didn't happen millions of years ago and we haven't had any new mountains or oceans since the time it was meant to have happened the point is moot.

That would be the work described here. It's a midrash and it is relatively recent (first published 1552 AD - although according to Wikipedia the only evidence for that is an assertion in the first known edition from 1625).It can't be considered a reliable source: And that explains why many people ignore it (as your earlier source did).

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So you are saying Pangea did not exist and the breaking up of the continents did not happen.

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No, I'm not - as you should know if you have been following what I have said. I'm saying that it happened milliosn of years ago and that continental drift happens at speeds within an order of magnitude of those observed today. What did NOT happen is a far faster break-up in the last 5000 years or so - and THAT is what you are claiming.

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My avatar is a picture of Pangea. Science says it was at one time.
Science says it separated into the continents we have today.

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Science says that the continents had started to break up more than 200 million years ago. Long before there were any humans.

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Genesis 1:9 says: "water gathered to one place rest called land."
Genesis 10:25 says: "earth was divided in Peleg's days."

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Now you twist that any way you want too. It will still indicate the land was in one place and that the earth was divided (cleaved) in the days of Peleg.

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And that division almost certainly refers to the forming of the nations in Genesis 10:32. The "sea gathered in one place" does not mean that the land was gathered in one place (that is your twisting) There is NO reference to a sudden and catastrophic physical movement of the land in the Bible for that period. Nor is there any scientific evidence that such an event took place at that time. All you have is your interpretation of an off-hand reference in a genealogy - a reference which you claim is not explained in the Bible (although it should be) and refers to something that is not mentioned anywhere in the Bible (nor even in "The Book of Jasher" used to compile the chart you referred in in Message 63)

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It matters not whether the Bible is true or false. It still says it.

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If the Bible was important to you you wouldn't be so determined to force your own false ideas into it.So let us be clear.The Bible does not mention ultra-rapid continental movementMainstream science does not include ultra-rapid continental movement - and dates the break-up of Pangaea to long before humanity existed.That is your idea.Please learn to distinguish it from what the Bible says and what science says.

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So you are agreeing that Pangea did exist.
You are also agreeing that the continents were formed by that one land mass dividing.

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As you should already have known.

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Does the Bible verses I quoted say there was a fast breakup?
They did say it happened.

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That's your interpretation. You can't find one single clear explicit reference to this breakup. And if your interpretation was correct there should be one. Moreover it HAS to be quick to fit into the time.

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Did they say it happened 5,000 years ago?
No.

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Did I say it happened 5,000 years ago?
No.

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In Message 57 you stated that Peleg was born around 2250 BC. That's within the timeframe I suggested. And you got that from the Bible. There may be uncertainties in that dating - which is why I allowed a broad range. But they are of the order of centuries, not tens or hundreds of millions of years.

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Please explain how nations divided in the earth = earth was divided.

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I stated that nations DIVIDED the Earth.

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Was the land gathered in one place? OR
Was the water gathered in one place? OR
Was they both true?

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This has no logical connection to the point. It is possible for one of them to be in one place and the other not. In all the diagrams the water appears to be in "one place", yet the land is not really in any of them - even in the first there are channels cutting off two land masses in the south.

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The Bible does not mention rapid movement nor does it rule it out.

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The Bible does not even mention the continents moving ! That is your scenario, and your scenario require the movement to be many times more rapid than the measured speeds.

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You then say: "This is your idea."

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Since I have not mentioned this and you are the only one who has, how can it be my idea?

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Because it IS your idea. You're the one who said it happened in the lifetime of Peleg. And that means that it has to be fast.

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1...Science theory is it broke up over 225 million years and is still moving.

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2...Science does not say humanity did not exist 225 millions years ago. It does not say that it did either.

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Science DOES say that there were no humans 225 million years ago (and no known mammals, even). Therefore science says that Peleg cannot have lived then, and so science denies that the breakup of Pangaea could have occurred in the lifetime of Peleg.

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Number 2 above have no bearing on:

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Science says all the water was in one place one time leaving all the land in one place.
The Bible saying all the water was in one place at one time leaving all the land in one place.

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This is wholly wrong. Science does not say anything so silly as the idea that all the water being in "one place" means that all the land is in one place. Nor does the Bible (you really are determined to put your own errors into the Bible - I guess that the real Bible isn't inaccurate enough for you).However the discussion is not about that. It is about your assertion that the "division" that occurred in the lifetime of Peleg refers to the breakup of Pangaea. As we have seen that is a dubious interpretaion that you have either invented or copied from someone else. THere is no real support for it in the Bible and in fact it is wholly incompatible with scientific understanding.