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Author Topic:   The Meaning Of The Trinity
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 82 of 1864 (735447)
08-15-2014 12:19 PM
Reply to: Message 80 by Phat
08-13-2014 6:31 PM


Re: Re-Trinity
Because that would make God Schizophrenic.
Ahem:
quote:
Gen 1:26
Then God said, Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness....
...
quote:
Gen 3:22
And the Lord God said, The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 80 by Phat, posted 08-13-2014 6:31 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 156 of 1864 (735989)
08-29-2014 12:04 PM
Reply to: Message 154 by ringo
08-29-2014 11:45 AM


Re: The Limitations Of Good And Evil Behaviors
NoNukes writes:
Show me where the Bible describes an obligation to protect you from being eaten by a lion, and I'll be happy to use the Father metaphor to describe that relationship.
Psalm 23 comes to mind:
quote:
4 Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.
5 Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies:
You might be able to weasel around the word "obligation" but I don't think you can deny that protection is expected.
That's the first thing that came to my mind when NN asked, and then I also thought that there may be a counter argument that it doesn't explicitly state an obligation.
I also thought of Matthew 7:
quote:
7 Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. 8 For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened.
9 Which of you, if your son asks for bread, will give him a stone? 10 Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a snake? 11 If you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him! 12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.
Not only does it hint at an obligation, for if you ask then God will provide, but it also uses the Father-Son relationship in the explanation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 154 by ringo, posted 08-29-2014 11:45 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 157 by ringo, posted 08-29-2014 12:07 PM New Cat's Eye has seen this message but not replied
 Message 158 by petrophysics1, posted 08-30-2014 1:41 AM New Cat's Eye has not replied
 Message 160 by NoNukes, posted 08-30-2014 2:16 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied
 Message 162 by Jon, posted 08-31-2014 9:57 AM New Cat's Eye has not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 171 of 1864 (736104)
09-02-2014 2:39 PM
Reply to: Message 170 by NoNukes
09-02-2014 1:28 PM


Re: The Limitations Of Good And Evil Behaviors
I don't even mind if people change positions in the same thread.
I dunno, man, lately you've really been coming off as a bulldog of a nitpicky pedant.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 170 by NoNukes, posted 09-02-2014 1:28 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 172 by NoNukes, posted 09-02-2014 3:16 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 173 of 1864 (736106)
09-02-2014 3:22 PM
Reply to: Message 172 by NoNukes
09-02-2014 3:16 PM


Re: The Limitations Of Good And Evil Behaviors
You want some bro?
Some more? No thanks, I've had enough already.

This message is a reply to:
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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 175 of 1864 (736161)
09-04-2014 12:26 PM
Reply to: Message 174 by ringo
09-03-2014 11:37 AM


Re: The Limitations Of Good And Evil Behaviors
Arguing a position is not the same as taking a position.
No, not here it isn't. Apparently.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 174 by ringo, posted 09-03-2014 11:37 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 176 by ringo, posted 09-04-2014 1:32 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 177 of 1864 (736173)
09-04-2014 1:59 PM
Reply to: Message 176 by ringo
09-04-2014 1:32 PM


Re: The Limitations Of Good And Evil Behaviors
Mmhmm...
quote:
Ya know, I'm just not sure that the 14th amendment requires a State to legalize gay marriage
ZOMG! YOU HATE TEH GAYZ!!!!
quote:
Actually, this is what the Bible says about the trinity.
ZOMG! HOW CAN YOU ACTUALLY BELIEVE ANY OF THAT STUFF!?
quote:
I'm not really seeing the correlation that you're talking about, see look at this.
ZOMG! YOU'RE JUST DENYING DATA BECAUSE YOU HAVE A BONER FOR GUNS!!
Day in. Day out.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 176 by ringo, posted 09-04-2014 1:32 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 178 by ringo, posted 09-04-2014 2:27 PM New Cat's Eye has seen this message but not replied
 Message 181 by Phat, posted 04-10-2016 6:38 AM New Cat's Eye has not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 328 of 1864 (811816)
06-12-2017 10:27 AM
Reply to: Message 324 by Phat
06-10-2017 5:35 PM


Re: .Gods love eases suffering
There is One God. period. His presence is experienced through the Holy Spirit. His character comes through Jesus Christ.
Phat, if you use a period and then write the word "period" after it, then you're supposed to stop typing after that. If you have additional qualifiers after that, then that is not a period, period.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 324 by Phat, posted 06-10-2017 5:35 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 331 of 1864 (811854)
06-12-2017 8:39 PM
Reply to: Message 330 by Stile
06-12-2017 2:56 PM


Re: Re-Trinity
One evil removed.
Do we not still have free will?
The question to me seems to become: How is man prevented from performing the one evil action? By restricting his will? Or not?
"All or nothing" certainly is not the only option.
Given. BUT my inability to fly like Superman has not been prevented by restricting my will
So how's it work in your scenario?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 330 by Stile, posted 06-12-2017 2:56 PM Stile has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 333 by Stile, posted 06-13-2017 9:10 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 335 of 1864 (811905)
06-13-2017 10:26 AM
Reply to: Message 333 by Stile
06-13-2017 9:10 AM


Re: Re-Trinity
New Cat's Eye writes:
The question to me seems to become: How is man prevented from performing the one evil action? By restricting his will? Or not?
Does it matter?
It does to the question of whether or not he has free will.
Let's say it is 'by restricting his will' (I'm assuming you consider this to be a negative thing).
Even if free-will is reduced to create such a place... why does such a reduction matter?
Well, either the will is restricted or it isn't. After that is determined, we can move on to whether or not that matters
Is such a reduction worth preventing the heinous action?
Not my call, but I'd say no.
I think the obvious answer is 'yes.'
If you think the answer is 'no,' could you offer a reasonable defense in allowing the heinous action? What 'value' are we preserving in order to keep the heinous action?
An unrestricted will.
Take flying like superman as the example. I want to do that, but I can't. My will is free, but I am physically unable. No restriction of free will there.
Now, and this is where my question comes in: an alternative would be to simply restrict my will from wanting to fly like superman - or eliminating the desire to perfrom the forbidden evil action from the human population.
Is that how your scenrio would work? Because if so, there would be countless forbidden actions that are even more evil than your example that we are simply not aware of. And then the question becomes: where do you draw the arbitrary line of restriction?
I think that is a dangerous and slippery slope to be going down, so my preference would be to leave the line at 'unrestricted'.
If infinite - 1 is still infinite... and there are an infinite number of ways to freely choose to "do good"... then, is free will reduced by blocking some "bad" options?
That is my question to you: is the forbidden evil action prevented by restricting the will, or not? If not, how?
Too, subtracting 1 evil action from an infinite number of them still leaves an infinite number of evil actions to perform, so how does your scenario even really help?
If such a situation is true, and we remove a few "bad" options... do we not still have "as-unlimited-as-before-free-will-to-do-good?"
That depends on how the bad options are removed...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 333 by Stile, posted 06-13-2017 9:10 AM Stile has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 336 by Stile, posted 06-13-2017 11:07 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 337 of 1864 (811917)
06-13-2017 11:34 AM
Reply to: Message 336 by Stile
06-13-2017 11:07 AM


Can you explain what it is about an unrestricted will that's worth having for this heinous action to remain?
It's the principle... because freedom.
I don't want my thoughts controlled.
If I say "limiting the physical ability, but not the desire" would that end our conversation in agreement?
Sort of, I'm curious how you'd envision that happening tho... And it could have ramifications for our free will, so I dunno.
I'm not positive what you're trying to get to here. But I think it's along the lines of "if we prevent 1 evil, then why not 20? Why not 'all'? Who decides? When do we stop?
If that is your concern. I fully agree.
Nailed it.
I just completely disagree that the solution is to "not do anything at all."
I would say the solution is do a few things and look for the line.
I don't disagree.
If it was only this 1 heinous action where the free will/desire was eliminated and nothing else... no slippery slope at all to consider, no "...and then" to come after. If that was it, would you agree to the limitation then?
Crying wolf about slippery slopes can stop a lot of advancement.
It's possible that electronic devices could lead to the destruction of all humans. Shall we stop making electronic devices because of that slippery slope?
When a line needs to be drawn, I have no problems taking action far, far away from the line (at the extremes) and then discussing where (even if) an actual line needs to be drawn. I think it could be a very interesting discussion, actually.
Sure, but it seems impractical. We don't have any way of doing this and speculating on why a god would or would not do it doesn't seem very productive.
But, perhaps it doesn't include the Trinity
Oh yeah, and we're off-topic
Therefore: if something doesn't affect free will... and yet eliminates children being in the sex trade... why not do it?
I would speculate that it goes against a principle that is more important to uphold.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 336 by Stile, posted 06-13-2017 11:07 AM Stile has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 338 by Stile, posted 06-13-2017 12:07 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 339 of 1864 (811934)
06-13-2017 12:19 PM
Reply to: Message 338 by Stile
06-13-2017 12:07 PM


I was mostly just weirded out by the impression of "being a robot" because of the elimination of my desire for even a single, specific terrible action.
Right on. FWIW, I read this:
quote:
How can good and free will both exist without evil, or not good existing? I don't believe such a thing is even possible. The choices then are to create good and evil or to create robots without the potential for doing anything but what they are told to do. Given a choice of a universe to live in, I'd prefer the former.
...as implying that good and free will cannot exist if you remove all of evil - not that removing one little bit of evil would cause the whole thing to come crashing down.
A discussion for another day, in another thread, I think.
Cheers!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 338 by Stile, posted 06-13-2017 12:07 PM Stile has seen this message but not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 352 of 1864 (812048)
06-14-2017 1:29 PM
Reply to: Message 342 by Tangle
06-13-2017 2:56 PM


I replied to this message here: Message 73.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 342 by Tangle, posted 06-13-2017 2:56 PM Tangle has not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 359 of 1864 (812190)
06-15-2017 11:15 AM
Reply to: Message 353 by jar
06-14-2017 3:00 PM


Re: Freely Ignored
Yes, thank you for acknowledging you are creating the God you want.
We all should do that...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 353 by jar, posted 06-14-2017 3:00 PM jar has not replied

  
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